‘More acceptance’ of S&M needed

[Imnobody4]

talkradio.co.uk/news/more-acceptance-needed-sm-activities-19032230392
My morning isn't starting well. Haven't heard the programme - not sure I could stand it.

the D/s balance between male and females does tend to reflect women's subjugation worldwide, doesn't it? And?

And?
That's the whole point.

It's not an accident, it's not just a weird coincidence.

What Apoalypse said

And I’ll add. I think seeing Dommes take a Dominant role is, in a broader sense, good for women in general, and especially female subs who may feel unease if they are in what they may be concerned is an abusive D/s relationship. Not the porn Domme (who is overwhelmingly a male construct) but real life Domme.

Part of living in a society is looking at your behaviours and asking yourself where these come from and if they are helpful or harmful to a wider society.
I enjoy lots of things that I have later decided don't help society so no longer do rhem

A person's private sex life has nothing to do with wider society. If they are publicly promoting it, that is different. Behind closed doors, none of anyone else's business.

There are lots of things that replicate women's subordination to men.......should we get rid of stay at home mums as they are reinforcing the patriarchy? Should we ban makeup as it serves to highlight our attractiveness, thereby reinforcing the point that how a woman looks matters more than how a man looks?

Just because some things reinforce patriarchy on a wider scale, doesnt mean that we shouldn't do them of we want to.

Moreover, as it is the patriarchy to blame, don't have a go at women about it all.

Just because you enjoy something doesn't make it free from critique or inherently good
Of course not.
I’ve said early in this thread, I just can’t reconcile my feminism and sexuality. I know others feel the same. I’m still a feminist, though.

I’m not sure it’s productive to insist bdsm community members who are already likely to be taking all the precautions possible justify ourselves, when, as I see it, the main concern is bdsm-esque sex being reproduced by teens and young people without the faintest idea of safe, sane, consensual ideology. They’re not in the community.

Just because some things reinforce patriarchy on a wider scale, doesnt mean that we shouldn't do them of we want to.

I'm not asking you to.
As I've said many many times on this thread, crack on.

BUT
Don't pretend that it's not damaging to women and all is hunky dory.

What people do in private ABSOLUTELY has to do with wider society, as what we do in private reflects our true principles and morals.

I'm not saying you can't do it, I'm not saying you can't enjoy it or that you're a terrible person for doing it.
But at the end of the day it harms women.

I get Botox and wear make up, if someone calls me out on it I'm like 'yeah it props up the patriarchy, I probably shouldn't do it but I live within the patriarchy and I've internalised some toxic messages'
Not argue with them saying that actually it's totally fine and it's completely my choice to have Botox and has nothing to do with wider society.

• Of course not. I’ve said early in this thread, I just can’t reconcile my feminism and sexuality. I know others feel the same. I’m still a feminist, though.*

I've actually agreed with loads of what you've said on this thread and I totally get this.

ApocalypseLaterOn
This is manslaughter- there is no evidence of consent beyond the perpetrator's word and the willingness to accept that as a reasonable assumption. This is the problem and is what is continually happening. A dead woman is assumed to have consented

I am sorry, but the nuanced nature of the law means that cases cannot really be compared fully on a like for like basis.

If a couple is in a loving relationship, non of the friends or family of the deceased reported abuse, the deceased didn't leave a diary detailing abuse, and appeared to all who knew them as a loving couple, then it is more likely that hurting someone when fisting them, was a terrible accident.

It is not only about the action of the person. It is about proving intention, beyond reasonable doubt in the case of murder, or on a balance of probabilities in manslaughter cases.

This thread is about sadism and masochism.

The specific issues are what forms of sadism a person can consent to, and more indirectly what sexual violence can be portrayed in pornographic material.

Whether or not this is real bdsm or what the bdsm community thinks the definition should be has nothing to do with the thread topic.

the specific case is someone who has removed an ear and a nipple and taken a scalpel to the tongue of other people.

The specific response discussed in the OP was from a lobbying group who support legalisation of more violent pornography and more extensive bodily harm.

Define sadism then.

I have a pet theory that d/s proclivities are a slight twisting of the hierarchical structures we naturally gravitate towards as primates. Like, it’s a crossed wire, inbuilt (at least for some people)

That's interesting Julietee, but it still leaves people like me as the outliers?

Well I'm not having a go at women. I'm having a go at men, the doms in this case.

Men who expect their wives to do the majority of the childcare and the domestic chores are also a problem. Men who expect women to be made up to the nines in order to find them attractive are a problem too. All these things can be addressed.

I have a pet theory that d/s proclivities are a slight twisting of the hierarchical structures we naturally gravitate towards as primates.

Explain this a bit more.
Do you mean that it's natural for men to dominate women or that when we live in packs (is that the right word?) we'd each know our place?

Why do we need a definition of sadism? It’s meaning is made clear by looking at it in the legal or therapeutic context or is mentioned in.

The specific issues are what forms of sadism a person can consent to, and more indirectly what sexual violence can be portrayed in pornographic material
I know the company I worked with had to be based in Spain because the videos they were making would be illegal here.
Which is the problem with such laws - the producers will just go to countries where filming extreme porn is legal. And as we know, the market pushes ever more extreme.

Where would you draw the lines of 'sadism’as you define it then might be a better way to phrase it?

What I can say is that what I do in the bedroom absolutely does not harm women. It is a blip in my feminism, and on this thread is the first time I have talked about it in a long time.

As I don't have cameras in my bedroom, no-one knows what I do.

I can appreciate that some activities which are BDSM-esque, done without the safe, sane and consensual elements can be harmful to women, but don't tell me that how my partners and I choose to show our love is hurting other women.

Well, we know some of what you do because you’ve discussed it on this thread.

The specific response discussed in the OP was from a lobbying group who support legalisation of more violent pornography and more extensive bodily harm

And we have all taken a stand against that.

I haven’t defined sadism.

What I do in the bedroom, similarly, does not harm women - I'm not into women, I'm as straight as it is possible to be, and I'd argue that the work I do in the community doesn't harm women, exactly the opposite - it gives them the tools to recognise abusive relationships, and a reporting mechanism, and support if they want to go to the police.

I see a lot more harm in teens who haven't a clue what they're at trying to recreate porn scenes.

Explain this a bit more.
Do you mean that it's natural for men to dominate women or that when we live in packs (is that the right word?) we'd each know our place

I think we’re genetically drawn to seek places in a hierarchy, and for some people that instinct gets crossed-wire twisted so that the placement in that hierarchy becomes erotically charged. Like some guys are into feet apparently because of a brain glitch? At least that’s what I’ve read.
I feel like it’s a primate glitch.
(Of course the patriarchy makes male dominance the default - I think it’s only the case for some people. I sound insane now, sorry )

You're on a public thread defending and endorsing it Apocalypse.

What do you think I do, exactly, to my partner, given what I've said on this thread then?

Well, we know some of what you do because you’ve discussed it on this thread

I know, I remember

It has been at great discomfort to myself, and has solely been to illustrate points.

Still, feel free to pour salt in the wound with a snide dig.