‘More acceptance’ of S&M needed

[Imnobody4]

talkradio.co.uk/news/more-acceptance-needed-sm-activities-19032230392
My morning isn't starting well. Haven't heard the programme - not sure I could stand it.

What do you think I do, exactly, to my partner, given what I've said on this thread then?

I would advise against anyone answering that

I don’t know what you do to your partner Bank. I was talking to another poster.

It isn’t a snide dig.

It was meant in good faith.

We are on a public forum, so you are increasing public awareness of it.

You're on a public thread defending and endorsing it Apocalypse.

Defending and endorsing what exactly?

It would be the same with any topic, be it nationalism or parrot keeping. If you discuss some of the details around participating in it, you have made that a public rather than entirely private matter.

Those people in the Torture Garden turned away from the young woman being abused and tied up with duct tape. That's harm right there to women - a man in the women's toilets abusing a woman and nobody says anything or stops him. People being trained to ignore, and even support, women's suffering because it's been normalised by kink. The people on the mountain in New Zealand similarly. How have we got to this?

I'm a dominant - that means I'm in charge. As to what I do in the bedroom, I have deliberately been vague, I have no desire to share, beyond to say, he enjoys it and I enjoy it, and that's all that matters to me. As soon as he doesn't enjoy something, it stops.

I don't torture, not by any definition of torture - unless you're including orgasm torture aka tease and denial in that, but not physical torture.

I can whip/rope/bondage and all that - of course I can - but it's not a daily feature. It was something I did in the past. It was part of my evolution. I've never done anything to someone who didn't want it and was left begging for more. And trust me, there's much worse can be done than a light flogging or a spanking. And I don't mean physical. You're all getting hung up on the sadism, when the most dangerous Dom/mes I've ever met have been the ones who can get right inside the head of their sub. They are dangerous.

It was meant in good faith.

I apologise then.

I am just feeling fairly battered from this thread to be honest. There has been so much rudeness, hostility and blame bandied about. It seems that some posters have forgotten that we are people too.

It is tiresome to have this conversation. I think I understand the points you are making, but they have been made so harshly, and not in the spirit of learning from each other, that I honestly just can't process the validity of what people are saying.

Bank, nobody has asked you what you do in the bedroom.

I'm going to move it away from peoples individual sex lives because I don't think it's helpful.

But if a men gets sexual enjoyment and arousal from seeing a woman being subservient then that harms women as a class.

That's a man in the world walking around, interacting with women who gets aroused at the thought of dominating a woman.

I am just feeling fairly battered from this thread to be honest. There has been so much rudeness, hostility and blame bandied about. It seems that some posters have forgotten that we are people too.

I think that's because we have been talking in the abstract and you have been bringing it back to you personally.

It's not meant as a personal attack when I criticise BDSM.

Apocalypse, I think you have taken this thread as being about you as the subject, and therefore feel people are being rude to not listen to your experiences and learn from them.

But as far as I can see, it doesn’t really have very much to do with what you do.

It is a bit like trying to have a thread about the social implications of pollution from cars and having someone constantly popping up and saying, but I ride a bike! Bikes don’t pollute. Not all road users are motorists. Until the whole thread becomes about you and your bike.

You're on a public thread defending and endorsing it Apocalypse

Comments like this, without explaining what I have supposedly ensorsed, are out of line.

I have endorsed precisely nothing. I have repeatedly said that I am not trying to persuade anyone to engage in BDSM and that it should remain in the shadows. I have spoken out against assault and porn. I have agreed the law should not have been changed.

I was asked what BDSM meant to me, and I replied. That isn't endorsing anything.

Please stop trying to demonize people on this thread who have been brave enough to engage.

This has made me realise that sadly, I won't be engaging in any further conversation about BDSM, regardless of who it may benefit. The toll it takes is too high.

The nipple and ear removal was nothing to do with BDSM. The person doing that was doing what he believed to be legitimate body modification. The person who wanted their nipple removed had no sexual or submissive motivation - they'd stretched their nipple with jewellery so that it was aesthetically unpleasant for them. It's absolutely nothing to do with this.

The nipple and ear removal is the topic of the thread.

the most dangerous Dom/mes I've ever met have been the ones who can get right inside the head of their sub. They are dangerous.
This is what I have been wondering for quite some time now. I'm surprised nobody has brought it up. I tried to angle the conversation that way once or twice by trying to explain D/s should not only be thought about in a purely sexual or physical context but as no one seemed interested, as apparently that's giving out personal details, or to believe me this could be the case, it was pretty hard to further.
they have been made so harshly, and not in the spirit of learning from each other, that I honestly just can't process the validity of what people are saying.
I'm struggling with this too actually.

Apocalypse, I think you have taken this thread as being about you as the subject, and therefore feel people are being rude to not listen to your experiences and learn from them.
This woman has been asked personal questions, answered them and then told she is making it about her, whilst she has tried to highlight that her reason for doing so is to give examples of what a healthy BDSM relationship should look like, for the benefit of others. She has been asked what D/s means to her. She has been asked questions about how practitioners can play safely and has given her own experiences to show that there are ways and that BDSM is more (infact a world away) than what you see in porn. She has also expressed how difficult that has been for her and posters still think this is a way to make it about her.

The nipple and ear removal is the topic of the thread.
I thought the topic of the thread was that S&mers wanted more acceptance? I am struggling to find much that actually follows the OPs link or other information on what people are doing to try and gain acceptance, would appreciate if anyone has any links, as the context in which the person in the OPs link is talking is a little unclear and non-specific to me.
The nipple and ear mutilation was something he said he did not condone. The topic of the thread wasn't "this man who cuts off people's ears wants acceptance." Unless I'm missing something

I was the poster who said people were being self absorbed. I was very, very clear that was people kept talking about various physical acts as not being real bdsm.

That moved the topic away from sex, violence and consent in society.

Posters frequent no true Scotsman posts and then further posts about how they’re offended that people aren’t that interested in real bdsm has effectively taken up this whole thread.

The topic of the thread was that a particular group - the Spanner group/foundation want to change the law around consent to violent acts and pornography (their aims can be seen on their website) and this was being discussed in the context of ear removal man being sent to prison even though the victims consented.

They are actually called the Spanner Trust, not group. Sorry.

Julietee

I don't see it as far back as a primate thing - i think it is more nuture than narture. For example boys who were always crawling round their mother's feet can develop foot fetishes as men. The prevalence of sexual violence and male violence against women or even reinforced hierarchy plays out in the unconscious and bubbles up as dreams and sexual fantasies and fixations.
For example I know a woman with a dominating, foul-tempered dad. I thought it was strange how she just loved being dominated and found men losing their temper hot.
Also I know a disproportionate number of short men are anal-sex fixated and perpetrate DV - to me it seems to be compensating for the humiliation and injustice of being looked down on other men - they want to take it out on women and 'own' them.
We've also covered a lot about Catholics lol. BTW - I have nothing against Catholics - but I have been pretty when they tell me about being told off by nuns as little girls for wearing 'devil's whore shoes' (patent) that could reflect their knickers.

Apparently the inspiration for BDSM, the Marquis de Sade, wouldn't now be welcome in the community as his rapes and torture of women "non-consensually" wouldn't be real BDSM.

The French have been trying to rehabilitate him though:

www.musee-orsay.fr/en/events/exhibitions/archives/exhibitions-archives/browse/5/article/sade-41230.html?tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=252&cHash=cc3ea9e888

Posters frequent no true Scotsman posts and then further posts about how they’re offended that people aren’t that interested in real bdsm has effectively taken up this whole thread.
Would it be better if there was no debate on any of the issues and the thread was an echo chamber of "bdsm is violent sex and nothing else?" Posters have tried to offer suggestions on things that could be done, they have tried to raise awareness, that if you are in BDSM and it looks or feels like violent sex or abuse it is violent abuse because the two are different and calling abuse BDSM does not make it so.

The parts of bdsm that are not about violent sex are not the topic of the thread.

Most women experiencing sexual violence don’t care whether or not it is classed as bdsm.