Miss/Ms/Mrs

[gigi556]

I'm getting married next month. I'm not taking my husbands surname.

Bit of background which may or may not be relevant... I'm an American living in the UK for many many years. I'm also an Italian national but identify more as American which is where I grew up. As an Italian, I'm not allowed to change my surname so makes the issue a bit of a moot point. However, given the choice I'd rather keep my name anyway.

Do most people use Ms once married if they keep their name or would they have used it before then anyway? I've always used Miss without giving it much thought. I guess I've never liked the sound of Ms. Silly I know. Even though the point of using it is to be neutral, the connotation to me is feminist (not a bad thing but perhaps negative to some in society?) or divorced. Maybe I should buy a title so I don't have to use any of them

Thoughts? Maybe these prefixes should be done away with for everyone. It's not something my other half has to think about at all!

"@Gwenhwyfar I cohabited before getting married - for 9 years with my ex (never got married), and for 6 years with my husband, before we were married.

I still never felt any need for any external signs of it being 'any different', and I don't have any"

I wasn't talking about you Kenahora!
I was talking about women who change their names on marriage, something that is shockingly still the norm.

For me, my maiden name recognises my history and heritage of which I am proud. I don't see why I should have to "lose" that when I marry.

You’ve missed my point. It’s not your maiden name. It’s just your name. Men don’t have bachelor names. So calling it your maiden name is inherently sexist and perpetuates the myth that it is only your name until you marry.

Fiance will just stay the same.

Why? Do the reasons that you’re going through the administrative burden of changing your identity not apply to him?

Ms feels a bit feminist

a feminist to me probably is an extreme sort of character

Why is this word being interpreted in this way. It literally means someone who believes women are equal to men. Which surely the vast majority (if not all) should be! Doesn’t mean you’re actively marching or burning your bra.

also I got a more interesting surname

Something which only ever seems to be the case for women. Their poor brothers and their boring names.

@MoreSlidingDoors

What should one call it these days? Birth name? Same thing though-I'm keeping it plus DB.

I think I can deal with the administrative burden of adding another surname - nothing compared to my divorce!!!!

@MoreSlidingDoors Re the feminist definition, I asked what it meant on the board the other day as I'm still not convinced there is a "one size fits all" answer. Some argued that as women we should in fact strive further than being equal to men?

Definition. It’s really simple.

That's not what they said!!

As Rebecca West said “I’m not sure what a feminist is- I only know it!’s what people call me when I express any view that distinguishes me from a door mat”

My take is that definition is correct, but that what it means in practice to different people will inevitably vary. For some it may be enough to achieve equal rights in law. Well, that's certainly necessary, as the bare minimum. But that still leaves a society in which women aren't actually equal in how we're treated. So, some feminists will then go on to look at causes of, and solutions to, structural sexism, that women don't merely have equal rights in theory but are treated equitably.

Equalism is a thing.

How do the non feminists on this thread define feminism?

Man hating hairies I expect

Miss female child
Master male child

When I look at Mrs I see Mr's, as in woman belonging to, woman owned by.

I do not consider women to be property so use Ms.

@Kennehora

No, he's staying the same. His surname to do with what he likes IMO.

ken yes, I’ve seen that too - I know lots of women who haven’t taken their DH’s surname on marriage (or aren’t married at all) but in all bar a couple of cases, their DC have their father’s name, not their mother’s.

I switched to Ms. when I started Uni. Though of course now it only ever applies when I'm ordering things from the UK as titles aren't used in Finland and I just pick whatever title I fancy at the time, today I ordered books with the title Dr. (on the very rare occasion I have to fill out some official form like when I registered to vote from abroad then I use Ms.)

@SpeakUpXXWomen

Is the definition of Miss really "female child?"

I'm an old lady Miss and proud! To most, Mrs assumes married and for some people they assume Ms means divorced. I use Miss to mean "None of your business!" I am divorced and shall also be married again next year. I'll be staying a Miss.

Is the definition of Miss really "female child?"

No, it's not. It's been used by unmarried women for centuries.

If men and women had been equal, then there would be the parallel suggested between Master and Miss, Mr and Mrs/Ms denoting nothing but sex and age. But then again if we'd always been equal we might all have just been Mr.

The one problem with Miss is that because it is also used of children, it could (overtly or subconsciously) imply lower status, very similar to the way grown women are often referred to as 'girls'.

"for some people they assume Ms means divorced. I use Miss to mean "None of your business!"

Well, for some people Miss means unmarried or never married.

I think Ms is the title which means "none of your business!"

Miss does not mean “none of your business!” It means unmarried-by definition. Ms means “none of your business”.

“The one problem with Miss is that because it is also used of children, it could (overtly or subconsciously) imply lower status, very similar to the way grown women are often referred to as 'girls'.“
Yes- when I was young woman, people used “Miss!” to attract the attention of waitresses.

Master is not the equivalent. People do not use it in the same way. You'd have to go back many decades to find boys and young men being called "master" with the same frequency as girls and young women being called "miss".