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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Police interviewing Caroline Farrow under caution and threatening to arrest her for "misgendering"

999 replies

Pimmsnlemonade · 19/03/2019 00:11

twitter.com/CF_Farrow/status/1107787009614065664

And, as she says in the thread:

"Meanwhile a group of people have terrified and harassed my family. Doxed my children, made violent and sexual threats, signed me up to porn accounts, did the same to my husband, threatened to visit here. And tumbleweed..."

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
RedDogsBeg · 21/03/2019 13:11

Jelly baby brain ffs - my two year old nephew comes out with more coherent and intelligent sentences than that.

nauticant · 21/03/2019 13:15

Supposedly intelligent people are swallowing and nodding along to this bollocks??? People in positions of power and influence are rubber stamping this???

Yes they are. One positive in this is that in the past over many scandals I've wondered "but how did this happen, why couldn't the people involved see what is so obvious to see?" and now I see it happening in real time. They don't want to see and to maintain their state of ignorance they would prefer to shut people down, even if it takes mis-applying the criminal law.

WeepingWillowWeepingWino · 21/03/2019 13:28

I went through a phase in my youth of being obsessed by Oscar Wilde, read that huge Ellermann biography of him and everything.

RedDogsBeg · 21/03/2019 13:50

Agreed nauticant, I've often thought that when scandals were unfolding. However, it is clear that no 'lessons have been learnt' by those scandals, no critical thinking is being deployed, no detailed questioning, nothing but blind acceptance. At the very least you would think people in power would have noted how harshly others have been judged and traduced when the metaphorical shit has hit the fan. The one benefit of the internet and social media is that they will have nowhere to hide this time, they cannot hide their actions in files that are locked from public view for 30 years, everything they have said and done is already documented in public view and saved.

nauticant · 21/03/2019 13:57

The amazing thing to me RedDogsBeg is not that those with power don't know, it's that they've adopted an interpretation of the issue that suits them best, gets them a quiet life, is most effective at currying unthinking support, and to maintain this interpretation they are willing for anything that challenges it to be suppressed.

R0wantrees · 21/03/2019 13:58

Supposedly intelligent people are swallowing and nodding along to this bollocks??? People in positions of power and influence are rubber stamping this???

Its likely being 'rubber stamped' by people/organisations already sympathetic.
It is extraordinary that it has passed through with so many legal, factual, safeguarding, child development, ethical, science failings.

It was covered in THe Times by Janice Turner 22/12/18:
'Trans ideologists are spreading cod science

Those who defend controversial charity’s right to a £500,000 lottery grant should really listen to what it is preaching'
(extract)
re you a Princess Barbie jelly-baby who likes frilly dresses, high heels and takes ages to get ready? Or a GI Joe jelly-baby who wears boots and functional clothing? Did you know that your preference for pink sparkles or muddy sports isn’t down to societal expectations of boys and girls. No, it’s written in your chromosomes. And that’s science.

Well, science according to Mermaids, the charity for trans children, in a presentation understood to be given to thousands of teachers, health workers, police and politicians, and part-funded by the Department for Education.

I listened to a recording of this bizarre 90-minute training lecture and wish others could too. Particularly those who pride themselves on rationality and evidence-based thinking: atheists, fans of Richard Dawkins and Ben Goldacre’s Bad Science; those incensed by climate change deniers on TV or creationists in schools; the same people who are tweeting #istandwithmermaids because the Big Lottery Fund is reviewing, in the light of an outcry, its decision to award them a £500,000 grant.

On tape the Mermaids trainer tells us that humans don’t come in two sexes, male and female, sperm and ovum: “Most people still think that way,” she says airily. “But what we know now, thanks to advances in science, is that the human race has up to 42 different sets of chromosomes.”

Biological sex is on a spectrum, she says, like skin tone and (seriously) bra size. A person’s “gender identity jelly baby” has nothing to do with how we are raised: it is inside you at birth. You know you are a man because you walk like a man and like “manly” things. A listener questions why this lecture is based upon stereotypes and is told “you’re going too clever”. (continues)

[https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-ideologists-are-spreading-cod-science-m8n0pdbq3?shareToken=8a9ff158df01b7384b35726fa71f60ab[]]

kesstrel · 21/03/2019 14:01

One positive in this is that in the past over many scandals I've wondered "but how did this happen, why couldn't the people involved see what is so obvious to see?" and now I see it happening in real time.

Absolutely. This is one reason I am so mesmerised by what's going on - unfolding in real time, as you say - beyond my concern at the actual damage being done. As a psychological/sociological/political phenomenon it is both fascinating and horrifying. There will be some brilliant books written about all this at some point.

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2019 14:11

I think it's genuine naivety a lot of the time and an unwillingness to see the darker side of society - or indeed themselves. Mixed with plain apathy.

If you see something bad, you either have to do something about it or mentally justify why you don't get actively involved.

A lot of middle class thinking either involves guilt combined with this sense if 'why can't we all just be nice and mind our own business'.

And making a business out of being a victim appeals to that sense of middle class guilt and people buy into the 'oooo I'm such a good person for recognising how persecuted they are' but not actually actively wanting to do anything tangible to address injustice or hardship on a practical level by making the effort to understand the root and causes of the social issue in any depth.

Identity politics in this sense is low effort / high social and personal reward.

RedDogsBeg · 21/03/2019 14:11

I'd probably have been thrown out/forcibly removed from that presentation because there is no way I could have remained and kept my mouth shut.

The amazing thing to me RedDogsBeg is not that those with power don't know, it's that they've adopted an interpretation of the issue that suits them best, gets them a quiet life, is most effective at currying unthinking support, and to maintain this interpretation they are willing for anything that challenges it to be suppressed.

That's sinister and very worrying.

The fall-out from this will be epic, the backlash against those who willingly allowed it will be colossal. Sadly, many, many people will have suffered and been damaged irrevocably before it happens.

nauticant · 21/03/2019 14:27

If you want an example of this in microcosm RedDogsBeg, this:

www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Federal-judge-closes-book-on-Houston-s-drag-13506880.php

happened in January which was the legal system effectively wanting a problem to disappear, and then this:

www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Library-apologizes-for-letting-registered-sex-13693986.php

happened the other day. If you go through the picture gallery of the first link to picture 7, you'll find the person who is the subject of the second link.

OldCrone · 21/03/2019 14:51

Meanwhile, Susie Green's (suspended) doctor friend, Helen Webberley, is running a Q&A on 31st March:

@GenderGP
“IF YOUR CHILD SAYS THEY’RE TRANSGENDER, THEY PROBABLY ARE”

gendergp.co.uk/liveonlineevent/

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3539048-Live-stream-session-with-GenderGP-on-31st-March

RedToothBrush · 21/03/2019 14:58

Is she touting for under the counter business?

Again.

R0wantrees · 21/03/2019 15:07

Susie Green appearing on panel this evening as an 'inspirational leader:

"International Transgender Day of Visibility is being celebrated by Accenture's Pride group with a discusssion panel/talk event featuring inspirational leaders from the LGBT+ community.

Our speakers will share their personal journeys, experiences they have had in the workplace and will answer questions you may have to help you be a better trans ally.

Agenda:

17:30 Registration, Drinks & Networking

18:00 Welcome/Opening (Accenture Leadership)

18:15 Panel Discussion

19:30 Closing & Networking Drinks + Food

Our panel includes::
Susie Green – CEO of Mermaids since January 2016.

Gina Denham – founder of Transpire (Essex Lgbtq group)

Dr. Jay Stewart - co founder and CEO of Gendered Intelligence

Arora Ashani – Lead organiser of Non-Binary in Tech
www.meetup.com/london-bisexuals/events/259896388/

see previous link re Gina Denham's (retired Police Officer) influence on school policy and pupils
www.transgendertrend.com/who-is-making-policy-for-schools/

YellowOranges · 21/03/2019 15:10

Mermaids have tweeted the clip of Susie's interview again as a ICYMI. So peculiar, that they can't see how damaging it is.

I liked this (looooong) reply thread on a previous Mermaid tweet

twitter.com/QueerOldDean/status/1108377981972549633

R0wantrees · 21/03/2019 15:11

“IF YOUR CHILD SAYS THEY’RE TRANSGENDER, THEY PROBABLY ARE”

If a child young person or vulnerable adult searches YouTube, "Am I transgender" the top featured videos will almost uninimously say "if you are asking the question then you probably are"

Most of the highest features are apparently confident, happy females who identify as trans men alongside a few private health care companies eg GenderGP

Its quite chilling in its uniformity.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 21/03/2019 15:51

I take strong issue with that though.
When I was 12, I wanted to be a boy. Didn't want periods, didn't want to grow breasts - thought it would be much easier to be a boy.
NOT TRANS - just didn't like the idea of female puberty.

These days? I'd have had all sorts of interventions and validations and been made to feel special and important and "oo yes we can turn you into a boy, you never have to have boobs or periods" - shit!! I'd have probably gone for it too, and then I would have never had my children and would probably have fucked my body up for no good reason because 3 years later I was quite happy to be female!

Fucking ridiculous to allow emotionally immature and all-over-the-place children to dictate their destinies like that.

JackyHolyoake · 21/03/2019 15:52

Meanwhile, Susie Green's (suspended) doctor friend, Helen Webberley, is running a Q&A on 31st March:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3539048-Live-stream-session-with-GenderGP-on-31st-Marc

with "the notorious Dr. Johanna Olson-Kennedy"

"The Western world is engaged in a massive and almost unregulated experiment on children and young adults. As gender dysphoria—the feeling of being trapped in a body of the opposite sex—takes hold and ramps up, physicians such as the notorious Dr. Johanna Olson-Kennedy are administering medical treatments that can literally ruin young people’s lives."

thefederalist.com/2019/03/21/new-evidence-indicates-cross-sex-hormones-trigger-major-heart-problems

R0wantrees · 21/03/2019 16:02

with "the notorious Dr. Johanna Olson-Kennedy

She of the lecture claiming that little boy babies with hot bodies or sensitive skin who unpop their babygrows may be transbaby girls wanting to create dresses? Or that little girl toddlers who don't like uncomfortable (&often unneccsary )clips stuck in their hair may actually be transtoddler boys?

(Because of course babygrows, dress shapes and hairclips are not in anyway specific to certain specific societies at a particular time being in fact universally sex-specific and understood by pre-verbal children Hmm )

nauticant · 21/03/2019 16:06

I think you might be referring to Diane Ehrensaft R0wantrees.

But I have little doubt that Dr. Johanna Olson-Kennedy will believe the same ridiculous and dangerous things.

Kettleon80 · 21/03/2019 16:10

She of the lecture claiming that little boy babies with hot bodies or sensitive skin who unpop their babygrows may be transbaby girls wanting to create dresses? Or that little girl toddlers who don't like uncomfortable (&often unneccsary )clips stuck in their hair may actually be transtoddler boys?

Kill me. Kill me now.

MockerstheFeManist · 21/03/2019 16:11

Reminds me of Oscar Wilde’s huge error in suing the Marquess of Queensberry for calling him a sodomite.

Actually, it was 'Somdomite.'

R0wantrees · 21/03/2019 16:14

nauticant thanks yes, was just coming to apologise as this was Diane Ehrensaft
vimeo.com/185149379

see thread: twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1096192914533814277

Dr Johannah Olsen-Kennedy is known (amongst other things) for carrying out double mastectomies on very young girls and dismissing concerns that there may be regret 'because they can always get replacement breasts'

JackyHolyoake · 21/03/2019 16:28

R0wantrees

"She of the lecture claiming that little boy babies with hot bodies or sensitive skin who unpop their babygrows may be transbaby girls wanting to create dresses? Or that little girl toddlers who don't like uncomfortable (&often unneccsary )clips stuck in their hair may actually be transtoddler boys?"

That was Dr Diane Ehrensaft

www.dianeehrensaft.com/

JackyHolyoake · 21/03/2019 16:29

This is Dr Diane Ehrensaft

R0wantrees · 21/03/2019 16:33

re Dr Johannah Olsen-Kennedy, article by Jane Robbins [an attorney and a retired senior fellow with the American Principles Project in Washington DC. She is a graduate of Clemson University and the Harvard Law School.]

(extract)
"Back in the United States, focus has been trained on the political agenda behind federally funded research into transgender treatment (see here, here, and here). Of particular concern is the lead researcher in one National Institutes of Health (NIH) study, Dr. Johanna Olson of Children’s Hospital Los Angeles.

Olson has made clear that she believes in “affirming” treatment, including double mastectomies for young teenagers, with little or no use of therapy to explore potential psychological pathologies underlying the dysphoria. Her statements show that Olson can hardly be trusted to produce an objective scientific analysis of the costs as well as the benefits of medical transition treatments. When a physician suggests that mastectomy regret isn’t a concern because the mutilated girl can just “go and get” breasts later, well, Houston, we have a problem.

But Olson may have even deeper reasons for an agenda. She is married to Aydin Olson-Kennedy, a woman who identifies as a man and has very publicly undergone a double mastectomy—the very procedure Olson pushes through her federally funded research. Moreover, Olson-Kennedy (the spouse) is a counselor who advises gender-dysphoric youth and adults on transitioning issues. The Olson-Kennedy couple collaborates professionally in “affirming” gender-dysphoria treatment, and they are stars on the transgender speaking circuit.

High-profile cases involving Olson-Kennedy the counselor suggest a distinct preference for resorting to medical interventions rather than using psychological therapy to ease or eliminate the dysphoria (or even just waiting for the child to outgrow the condition, which the vast majority of them do).

One of these cases involved a girl who, with Olson-Kennedy’s counsel, underwent a double mastectomy at the age of 14. If mutilating a child of that age weren’t disturbing enough, the girl had suffered from psychological problems most of her life, perhaps related to the fetal alcohol syndrome afflicting her at birth. But she was recommended for surgery anyway, and though she has initially reported satisfaction with her new body, no one can predict her feelings as she grows up. The preference is to wield the scalpel now and hope for the best later.

A second case, even more shocking, involved a Down syndrome girl whose mother was trying to raise money to pay for the child’s double mastectomy. The child suffered from complex medical issues and was apparently unable to tell her own story, which her mother completely scripted.

Yet Olson-Kennedy urged the “transgender community” to donate so the uncomprehending patient could be mutilated. Apparently Olson-Kennedy, a trained therapist, saw no warning signs in a mother’s claim that she, and she alone, could understand her developmentally disabled daughter’s alleged longing for a masculine appearance. Full speed ahead.

Political agendas often eclipse morality and even common sense. But rarely does that phenomenon come into such stark relief.

Moving from ideology to good old-fashioned self-interest, it’s worth noting that the Olson-Kennedy team apparently benefits financially from their “affirming” treatment beyond just insurance reimbursement for services rendered. Both are on the consultant payroll for Endo Pharmaceuticals, which formulates and markets the hormones administered to dysphoric patients (administered frequently off-label, which means the hormones haven’t been approved for this purpose). If this team were in any other line of medicine, activists would be screaming about the conflict of interest.

So this is the world in which Johanna Olson lives, and which shapes her attitudes about treatments for gender-dysphoric children. Given these troubling indicators of bias, how could NIH have awarded her millions of federal taxpayer dollars to research the effects of what she is so demonstrably committed to?" (continues)

thefederalist.com/2018/09/27/federally-funded-researcher-studying-trans-children-married-trans-woman-profit-child-mutilation/

As is hopefully clear, Im not very well informed about US key players.
The article has quite a lot of embedded links so information / allegations can be looked into.
There will likely be better summaries of possible issues with this 'gender expert'

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