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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Does anyone else feel this is affecting their mental health but also feel that it’s too important to walk away from?

129 replies

Destinysdaughter · 17/03/2019 23:53

I do. I’m on MN and Twitter every day and I feel so enraged and powerless by it all. It’s so fucking ridiculous and bullshit and gaslighting ( today I listened to a interview on Kent radio with ‘ Dr Rachel’ and I felt so angry I just wanted to chuck my phone across the room. ) I’m 54 and I cannot believe it’s come to this. The good Dr is saying, with a straight face, that there are no biological advantages between men and women? Even a child knows there are massive differences, why are we even debating this shit???

So I feel v conflicted between wanting to just walk away from this bollocks as it’s constant, but also feeling like I HAVE to know what’s going on, as it’s such a massive fight which we CANNOT lose.

I don’t want to live in this state of constantly feeling enraged. And I know there’s been a few small wins, but why, in 2019 are we having to fight for the literal definition for what the word woman means...???

OP posts:
tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 18/03/2019 09:29

Thank you for this thread OP. I'm sorry the shits getting you down, it really is tough right now so I'm not surprised you need a break. OccasionalKites post is really very wonderful and to liken us to a relay race makes me personally feel better about every now and then having a break.

It's also occurred to me that I know few people in real life who will discuss this. I tried calling my female friends to arms back in October having never discussed it but the deadline for the consultation was looming and I just though "fuck it" I'll let people know it's there and stick my colours to the mast so if like me they're GC and hiding we can talk. Of about 8 people 6 of them have never even acknowledged it at all. That was a low moment. I was gobsmacked. Literally it's the story of the frog being slowly boiled alive in a bucket of water. The fact that even now the only people I know IRL who even discuss this and are GC are my daily mail, brexit loving 70+ parents is also surprising yet depressing.

I have decided for my own sanity I need to find a group of like minded people that I can meet and talk with. In the meantime OP I'm so glad for you and all all you other wonderful, batshit crazy vipers on this board. Smile

terryleather · 18/03/2019 09:44

I have decided for my own sanity I need to find a group of like minded people that I can meet and talk with.

I highly recommend doing this if you can.

The first meet up I went to had me on a high for ages and I've been to more since. Many of the women I met with are here on MN too......and it's lovely to be able to put faces to names.

There are more and more grassroots groups springing up all over the country tellme, I hope you can find some like minded women near you.

WrathoftheWorstkIop · 18/03/2019 09:48

Reading about all this is a strain, because too many important changes have happened under the radar.
We are very angry and many of us feel powerless.
Everytime there is a behold moment, a man has entered the room I despair.

And then to add a boy has also entered the room Women and girls are truly getting fucked over.
And then today there is a thread on peerages and trans men losing out. I depair again.

Laws are being changed surreptitiously to advantage all males, men and boys.

I'm so angry.

HawkeyeInConfusion · 18/03/2019 09:52

I agree OP.

I desperately want to come off ADs as the work shite that drove me onto them is long since resolved. But with this going on I'm not sure I dare.

It is the transing of children that stresses me the most. I cry for them at times. And I look at my young DC and hope that they grow up without being swept up by this cult. Throughout their lives I have told them that there are no such things as girl toys and boy toys, or girl hobbies and boy hobbies and that anyone can wear whatever they want and it doesn't change who they are. They seem to get it, but I live in fear that it could be undermined if people in authority start telling them otherwise. It is a constant worry.

On the plus side, I told DD(8) that there were some people who thought that if a boy played with what they thought of a 'girl toys' then he wasn't a proper boy (she wanted to know why I didn't want to donate to CiN) - she stared at me as if I was crazy, and replied 'but that's just personality'. So I really hope she's got it.

Take care of yourself OP.

Tap335 · 18/03/2019 09:58

Thank you OP for this thread.

There has been a tangible impact on my mental health, for sure. Hoodathunkit sums it up really well. It is a cult. Only that it has taken over mainstream culture.

I have to stay undercover to protect myself but it is taking its toll. Now looking for some good book recommendations on living under Stalinism.

At least those closest to me get it.

hoodathunkit · 18/03/2019 10:13

Tap335

would a thread on recommended reading / viewing on cults be helpful?

A book I read recently that is highly illuminating in terms of understanding how cultic processes infiltrate society and can be used to manipulate the masses is this book - I would recommend it highly

www.amazon.co.uk/Nothing-True-Everything-Possible-Adventures/dp/0571338526/ref=sr_1_1?s=gateway&keywords=nothing+is+true&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1552903932&sr=8-1

This video (while beloved of David Icke following conspiracy theorists and 9/11 truthers) has some helpful and thought provoking facts and ideas

HuckfromScandal · 18/03/2019 10:14

Absolutely
I took a month long break from Facebook, mumsnet and Twitter in January, as it was affecting my mental health, to the point where I was dreaming about it.

I also work in an industry where it is at the forefront, and I am on the wrong side, which is causing me anxiety as my boss is on the other.

I take strength from the suffragettes right now. At least I am not chaining myself to railings-- yet.
I have wondered idly - if I get dismissed for my views, how will an employment tribunal view it?

Horsewithnointerestinsport · 18/03/2019 10:20

Agree with OP and subsequent comments.

Thank fuck for this place, eh?

hoodathunkit · 18/03/2019 10:33

Free sample chapter from the book I recommend in the above link
(may be distressing as describes grooming and exploitation of women)
www.thedailybeast.com/russias-gold-digger-academy

MilletSentToForceIt · 18/03/2019 10:33

I am about to take a break from all social media (including MN) as i can feel I am becoming depressed from this.

I think it’s partly because it is so isolating. It has taken away my politics, some friends and even my grown up children for a short while, as they are both lovely, kind, lefty people who think their mother is a bigot, on the wrong side of history.

It Is making me question all my link and associations, so I am feeling less grounded in my life.

I think the recent Penny M debacle is the straw that damaged this camels back, only temporarily though, this adult, female camel will be back, stronger than ever!

NeurotrashWarrior · 18/03/2019 10:34

I used to be such a big reader and I have a pile of unread or half read books on my bedside table. I'm trying to set myself reading goals to take time off the web and get back to reading again. It's much more relaxing.

Same except it's the gendered brain Confused...

hipsterfun · 18/03/2019 10:42

I sometimes worry that we’re overreacting to an epic, tech-assisted pure trolling effort, because in the real world hardly anyone truly believes this nonsense.

Then I think, for example, about young women, particularly lesbians, self harming by surgeon - and being cheered on by other ‘responsible’ adults - and realise it doesn’t matter whether it’s trolling or not.

terryleather · 18/03/2019 10:44

I sometimes worry that we’re overreacting to an epic, tech-assisted pure trolling effort, because in the real world hardly anyone truly believes this nonsense.

I think about this too hipster..

Daughterofmabel · 18/03/2019 10:44

OP- yes I have let it get to me and took a month break from social media and activism I also went off sick from work as it is all around me there. Can only echo what others have said - you have to look after yourself. Also some non online activism is great to help the feeling of actually doing something constructive eg meeting with mps

Tap335 · 18/03/2019 10:47

The book looks great - thanks hoodathunkit

Truth is fundamental to a democracy. This isn't just some niche issue, which is what I think many people feel it is.

Millet, it's been the same for me, made me rethink my politics and outlook on life in a fundamental way. Am now much more wary of jumping on bandwagons. And I've become really fed up with lazy historical comparisons a la 'Hitler shows that we need to oppose intolerance, even violently' - yes, sure, but who gets to say which views are intolerant? Who gets to say who's a 'fascist'?

Justhadathought · 18/03/2019 10:52

Take a twitter break.......it is not good for mental health, and also try to be aware that this is a long haul thing. Resisting a culture that has embedded itself into all of our structures will take time to dismantle.
But have faith that the more that people wake up to what is going on, and the true implications of it - there will be ever more resistance.
This whole thing is a top down imposition. It is not coming from the grass roots or from the public.

hipsterfun · 18/03/2019 11:21

terry, I’m certain misogynist trolling is part of it - it would be more of a surprise if it wasn’t - and likely also that it’s partly coming from those states who would have an interest in undermining social and political stability (such as it is) elsewhere.

The fetishists have their own motivations. As do the opportunistic predators.

But what truly messes with my mind is that none of the above would get anywhere without the Walking Woke who have abandoned all critical thinking in order to lend a fucking hand.

hoodathunkit · 18/03/2019 12:14

I sometimes worry that we’re overreacting to an epic, tech-assisted pure trolling effort, because in the real world hardly anyone truly believes this nonsense.

To understand what is happening, in terms of social engineering, you have to understand the nature of astroturfing.

Let us imagine that there exists a small group of extremely powerful people (mostly but not all male) who enjoy the benefits of obscene wealth and the omnipotence it confers.

How do they control the opposition and stifle dissent? How do they consolidate their assets and retain their positions of omnipotence?

Of course the oldest trick in the book is that to control the opposition you become the opposition. Nowadays we understand this as astroturfing.

So, for example, if this powerful group cherishes a world view in which women and men must conform to gender stereotypes, it is quite logical for such a group to bankroll feminist groups, women’s emancipation groups and groups for men who are gay or who are considered not to conform to gender stereotypes.

The strategy can be to infiltrate existing groups using shills / sleeper agents / agent provocateurs, to compromise groups by “ helping” them financially so that they are financially dependent (a common strategy with charities) or to create entirely new shell groups (very easy in the internet age).

Once groups have been established / infiltrated / compromised the usual trick is to take things to extremes and then to ridicule them from afar.

This is what has happened with the TRA movement, a movement that is hurting women and also hurting intersex people and transsexuals.

One important element to appreciate is that, before the advent of the internet, some people with autistic spectrum disorders often faired poorly in terms of careers and interpersonal relationships.

Now powerful groups, everything from criminal networks through to governments are involved in an unusual kind of arms race in terms of identifying genetic and neurological features that are involved in the creation of people known as savants.

Some neuro-atypical people are highly desirable as human assets.

People like Daniel Tammet are extreme interest both to criminal networks and to governments
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Tammet

Various actors are, naturally, very interested in, just for example, genetic tweaking and neurological research in order to create savant human assets

It is no surprise to me that young people on the autistic spectrum are being recruited into personality cults via youtube and facebook influencers

It is no surprise to me that many young people on the spectrum are identifying as transgender

It is no surprise to me that, when I have attempted to raise concerns about terrifying abuses against vulnerable people that when I get to meet some senior official in the public sector, they turn out to be trans

This is not, in my opinion, a theory of men against women. It is a conspiracy of powerful people using systems of mental health service provision (charitable and NHS), social networking websites and astroturfing of minority advocacy groups in order to get oppressed people fighting each other while they snipe from the sides and harvest savants and experiment on young people who are vulnerable and / or neurological-atypical.

hipsterfun · 18/03/2019 12:30

You’ve gone further towards classic conspiracy theory than I find plausible, hooda.

A perfect storm of bad faith and stupidity seems more likely.

RunningWild12 · 18/03/2019 12:34

Please take some time out. Burn out in any campaign is a real issue and this is a particularly difficult campaign for us, where even meeting in public is nigh on impossible. But meet people in real life if you can.
And look back where we were a year ago and where we are now. We couldn't have imagined having Martina Navratilova, Sharron Davies and Kelly Holmes speaking so strongly on the issue. Or Joan McAlpine MSP taking a stand in the Scottish Government. Articles esp by Janice Turner et al in The Times, documentaries which are more even handed. We have moved the debate on.
We are in this for the long haul, change won't happen overnight. So we can all afford to take time out. Tag team campaigning. We need everyone able to contribute when and how they can and no campaign is worth jeopardising your health. Do what you can, when you can and take time to take pleasure in the things in your life you enjoy.

hoodathunkit · 18/03/2019 12:38

hipsterfun

I cannot blame you for thinking my hypothesis implausible

i recall speaking to an acquaintance recently who said to me "hooda, when you first told me about XYZ I thought it sounded completely insane. Now it's on the news every day".

I posted a provisional hypothesis to be kept in mind rather than a proven truth

However, having been personally involved in a number of issues central to the TRA discourses it is the hypothesis that seems most likely to be be valid to me

I always keep an open mind and am open to learning more

It is going to take an absolute age for me to share validating data and some data is too sensitive to share

Also my hypothesis here is only part of something larger

we shall see

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 18/03/2019 12:50

Thanks Terry Smile

hoodathunkit · 18/03/2019 12:50

Also hipsterfun

I am generally very sceptical of Its involving TPTB / elite paedophile rings etc. I am no believer in Pizzagate, Qanon or any of that foolishness

Very often they are antisemitic CTs in disguise

However they can also be untrue CTs that veil real CTs

I think the most rational way to proceed is to allow oneself to develop a number of provisional hypotheses and to then use evidence to either validate or nullify them

What you do not have access to all the facts you cannot use deductive reasoning, inductive reasoning is what is left.

Of course we must be careful and aware of confirmation bias, but it is important to be able to be able to retain the ability to think creatively and much of the policing of debate and of language is an attack on thinking IMO

Lamaha · 18/03/2019 13:10

Twitter is a fucking hellhole, I am rather hoping someone is going to do something irreversibly damaging to the servers so it vanishes from the net entirely. What idiot didn't foresee that a site completely based on restrictive sound bites would demolish rational discourse for great swathes of the populace?

I can't stand Twitter and have mostly avoided it, until recently, as it seems much of the discussion on GC issues takes place there. I prefer Facebook, to be honest. I really wish Twitter would self-destroy forever.

This is not destroying my mental health. Yes, I am shocked and saddened and outraged but I don't allow it to take over completely. I talk about it to people who will listen (found an open eat in my son in law, hurrah!) but mostly I just continue as before. I meditate and have a calm place inside me, a refuge from the madness, and it helps.
I have a strong faith that it will blow over and later generations will be picking up their jaws from the floor at what some idiots are trying to impose on the rest of us. We will go down in history as the madness decade.

hipsterfun · 18/03/2019 13:28

later generations will be picking up their jaws from the floor at what some idiots are trying to impose on the rest of us. We will go down in history as the madness decade.

They may well be, but you can safely bet that while they’re at it, they’ll be missing the next form of madness being imposed on them.

We never learn.

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