Use of "cis"

[notwokeup]

What are your opinions on the use of cis? I have to say I hate it. It feels like an unnecessary prefix to me.

However, a young trans woman has just started at my work, and insists on referring to cis women (rarely cis men). Because of the work, I am loathe to say anything as I know that I would be in trouble. I have no problem using their preferred pronouns she/her, and she is a lovely person, although young (20) and quite naive. Yet I cringe every time she refers to women as cis.

Please do say something to this person OP, many good suggestions above. I know people are afraid of being called bigoted/transphobic etc but the person shouldn't be allowed to spout such crap unchallenged

I will say something if it comes up, and I'm grateful for the advice given here. I'm also angry that I have actually been far more considerate of their "feelz" than they have of mine or other women at work.

Which when you think about it is part of the problem - my whole conditioning as a woman is to be nice, and kind. Regardless of whether or not it makes me feel uncomfortable.

Funny that as women we are conditioned to be nice and step aside - but a male who says that they ‘feel’ like a woman is often quite the opposite.

Males could do with a similar movement to broaden acceptance of divergent males, to prevent violence.

Yes, yes, yes!

So much of the current trans activism is about non-conformist men finding current stereotypes of masculinity uncomfortable and damaging.

And why wouldn’t they?

Yet, instead of struggling and organising to change That (as feminists have done for at least 200 hundred years) they decide that they want to muscle in on women’s lives.

It’s bullshit masculinist entitlement. Because being a “feminine” man is just the worst worst thing apparently.

It was actually a genuine question eyes, even if the wording was somewhat sarcastic.

In my mind 'identify as' suggests that someone wants to lay claim to a particular label where there is no objective definition. So whether you qualify for that label is based on your and others' perception - and so there can be differences of opinion.

So I could identify as being old, ugly and short. Others may agree or disagree depending on their perception, but there is no absolute right or wrong.

Whereas for something where there is a clear definition, I would say 'i am'. There is no debate. It is absolute and there is no grounds for anyone to disagree. So I would say I am human, I am awake, I am female.

Because you said you identified as female, I took it to mean that your definition of female is not absolute - of the reproductive class that produces large gametes or ova. So I was intrigued as to what definition of 'female' you use.

The trans woman I am talking about looks very much like a woman. She's about 5'6" and very slightly built. She looks more feminine that her sister who was born female

Ah, stereotypes. How refreshing.

simply have loos with a penis on the door, for penis-holders, and those without, for non-penis holders. Everyone would be served.

Yep. Works for me.

I'd hope the penis-holders would be recyclable and free at the point of use or at least not attract VAT.

Bring it on.

The trans woman I am talking about looks very much like a woman. She's about 5'6" and very slightly built. She looks more feminine that her sister who was born female.

Wow. So, “looking being short, slight, and dressing like a woman” makes him “look” more like a woman than his female sibling? Do you not even realize how much sexism and misogyny is dripping in this comment?

You know what, I personally don’t care about sharing a washroom with a man after spending enough time in tents and foxholes with them. But I do care about sharing my washroom with someone who fetishizes women, who wants to “help” ten year olds with their tampons, who uses the “rules”
to claim he can undress in a girls locker full of a teenage girls swim team, of the man who flashes his penis and “performs a sex act” in a room full of women in a “gender free” sauna (after activitists pushes to remove the gender segregation), about women who for religious reasons cannot share washrooms with men and may even be at risk of violence by their own families if they do, and teenage girls learning to navigate their changing bodies including menstruation in private.

I care because I recognize that however I feel about sharing, it is not all about me, it is about women. Not men who want to be women (and never can be). Not men who are “5’6” and slightly built”. Not men who dress as women. Not men who “pass” or don’t.

And by the way, women have no way of knowing what men are “good” and which are not, which to fear and which to not. It should not be up to women to have to walk into a space for them and decide which men are a threat and which are not, and be at risk if they don’t or can’t assess correctly.

You have no idea if other girls and women might feel unsafe or uncomfortable with your male friend in the women’s washroom. I doubt you had followed him into every toilet he has been in, and asked every girl and woman he came across in them. Most girls and women in fact are conditioned to “shove over” and won’t say anything or won’t even leave - whether they feel unsafe or not - because they are worried about being too rash, etc.

Keep the men out and girls and women won’t have to risk their own bodily integrity and safety just cause they “judged wrong”.

I told a ridiculous SJW type that I am not 'cis' and explained why. I said basically if I absolutely had to pick one of the many gender labels it would be non-binary or a-gender. I was then argued with that I am 'clearly' cis and it is bigoted to claim otherwise

I think the most inocuous response is probably the most effective.

"This group of CIS women who stood by the fountain" - response "Oh, did you see those women at the fountain as well?" and similar ways. By very consistently expressing the norm, you can address the language.

There is no need to qualify the term "woman" at all, unless in very specific circumstances, like there is no need to qualify people by race or disability unless in very specific circumstances.

If anyone calls me cis then I’ll call them out on it. I wasn’t ‘assigned’ anything at birth. I’m a woman by definition of my chromosomes.
I don’t believe in gender. I don’t believe in any god either so it’s the same as calling me a Christian or a Muslim. Do not use your made up terms to label me.

I noticed the comment, way back, that most 'trans guys" will use the men's toilets once they're at the stage of "passing" as male because as well as wanting to, for the validation, they also think women could be startled and uncomfortable to see someone who looks male striding on into the women's toilets.

I've seen a similar take from TRAs and "trans women", arguing that making it law that people must use the facilities appropriate for their sex, not gender, will "force [trans] men into the women's toilets", and they usually follow this with the ad showing 'trans guy' eg Michael C Hughes, posed carefully to appear larger than MCH actually is, wearing a manly cowboy hat, beard and non-smiling scowlly-face.

It's just interesting that the 'trans guys' have the awareness and empathy to understand that someone who looks male, will cause discomfort, anxiety, and fear, in women's toilets, whereas 'trans women' couldn't gaf. They've heard us saying most of them are obviously male. We can see their man-brows, man-jaws, enormous man feet and hands, and the male way they walk and move because of their male skeleton. And the way so many of them complain that it's rare for any of them to pass so well as Blaire White, or even Borgderp, they are indeed aware that "passing" unnoticed is probably never going to happen for them. So where's that understanding of women's discomfort now? Male socialisation and masculine mentality places themselves well before any consideration for girls and women.

I had some fun (yeah, I know - need to get out more) when I had a weird conversation with a fellow green party member who was talking about 'cis' women.

I pretended to have misheard, and asked:
"Surely we shouldn't refer to transwomen as cissies?"
Reply: "We don't. I'm referring to women who aren't trans."
Me: "Women are cissies?"
Reply: "No-one's a cissy"
Me: "You said cissy women"
Reply: "I said 'cis-women"
Me: "Exactly. Bit rude. I thought the word 'cissy' was no longer in use?"

And so on. Sometimes there's a plus side to being a bit mutton and geoff in a crowded room - and I made the most of it.

Pam

This is where I first began to put my foot down. It made no sense to me when I first began to hear it. Even the explanation made me uncomfortable. I was told basically "well if we have to have a special prefix to show that we are some special class of women you should have to have some prefix to show what kind of women you are so you don't think of yourselves as NORMAL women and us as the ABNORMAL women and that way it will be all nice and equalizing!" And I know this was somehow nit right but I couldn't wrap my head around a counter argument.

Then a transwoman I knew online, who had been a friend for some time and who knew I felt uncomfortable with the phrase, just completely flipped out on me. He said, "For years "transwoman" had been abbreviated to "tr*nny" and so now you are ciswomen so we get to call you cissies! HA TAKE THAT YOU CISSY! CISSY CISSY CISSY!" like in really big font, bold letters, very aggressive internet speak.
And I was just like wow. There was just so much obvious hate behind it.
So I said to my spouse don't you dare ever call me this, this is a hard line. He is really, really angry and upset that I will not let him call me a ciswoman but that conversation just made me so angry.

For years "transwoman" had been abbreviated to "tr*nny"

No, most people didn't call them "transwomen" in the past. It was short for either transvestite or transsexual to the majority of the public.

I can’t imaging how it would come up on conversation but

“Bla bla bla ‘cis’ Bla bla bla bla bla bla”
“What the bloody hell does that mean?”
“Nya nya nya your sex at birth matches your gender”
“Who the bloody hell cares about that? How is that relevant to work? One it is a made up label and two, it’s none of your bloody business. How dare you label me - I’m off to HR to make a formal complaint” (flounce in a hurty manner).

Thats awful older

No, most people didn't call them "transwomen" in the past. It was short for either transvestite or transsexual to the majority of the public.

"Transsexuals are women" doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

Quite.

FFSFFSFFS what you said, and what others said I have had my post deleted for, so I'm not allowed to say it.

Have MN very recently updates their TGs as I'm lost