Use of "cis"

[notwokeup]

What are your opinions on the use of cis? I have to say I hate it. It feels like an unnecessary prefix to me.

However, a young trans woman has just started at my work, and insists on referring to cis women (rarely cis men). Because of the work, I am loathe to say anything as I know that I would be in trouble. I have no problem using their preferred pronouns she/her, and she is a lovely person, although young (20) and quite naive. Yet I cringe every time she refers to women as cis.

She respects women.

If this person respected women, they wouldn't use spaces which are female sex only for reasons of privacy and dignity. That's the plain fact of it. We do notice. And many of us mind.

She doesn't make women unsafe.

What would happen if one woman said your friend DID make her feel unsafe? (ditto: can't share facilities for religious or cultural reasons)

What if it was 10 women?

What if it was every woman (bar you, presumably)?

Would your claims of "I know a nice one so you're all overreacting" still be valid?

Male trans people ? I'm confused. Lead by example to who ? Do you mean trans women or trans men?

I'm sure you know which sex "trans women" are. Don't be disingenuous.

There are women and there are men.
There are transwomen and there are transmen.
Very rarely there are intersex people.
Cis people do not exist, they are a construct invented by the transgender cult.

That poster means that transwomen should lead by example and use the gents

Thanks.

Lead by example to who?

Ereshkigal

It's not the term trans women that confused me. I understand some people say they are men although I disagree. It was the term 'male trans person' that I thought was trans man but apparently actually means trans woman.

The definition of women isn't someone 'who is 5'6", slightly built and more feminine than their sister'. Otherwise lots of women wouldn't qualify and most male transpeople.

I was just explaining why she uses the female toilet.

It was the term 'male trans person' that I thought was trans man but apparently actually means trans woman.

Well, yes, obviously a GC person isn't going to pander to an ideology they believe is harmful, are they?

Like it or not, your friend is biologically male. That is a fact, not an opinion.

Lead by example to who?

Dunno

Didnt get that far

Under 5”6 and slight build? So most boys under the age of 14 then?

eyesareneverclosing:
if cis woman means someone who identifies as a woman and was assigned female at birth then I suppose that's me. It's just a way of differentiating.

Why doyou believe you were "assigned female at birth"? Are you intersex, and were "assigned" female because the midwife/doctor wasn't sure what you were? Because that's the only way the term "assigned" applies. Otherwise you simply "were" female at birth.

I was just explaining why she uses the female toilet Toilets are sex separated, not height or appearance separated. Your friend should use the toilet that corresponds with their sex, otherwise they’re eroding women’s rights.

Occasional kite, yes I do have to interact with her. I haven't had a problem with that at all.
It's different to any other mtf trans for me in that she's so young and so woke. I have two friends who are mtf trans, but much older and both 20 and 15 years post surgery. I don't even know if this person has started hormone treatment (and wouldn't feel comfortable asking). As far as I'm aware their transition is very recent.

So it's ok for trans men to use the men's but not for trans women to use the women's. You want all trans people to use the men's?

Or we could just ditch the use of the word trans comletely when it comes to loos and simply have loos with a penis on the door, for penis-holders, and those without, for non-penis holders. Everyone would be served.

How would your co-worker feel about being referred to as cis man?

Because if we need to include every variation of gender identity (because there aren't just two are there... and of course they could be fluid as Pip Bunce demonstrates) then your co-worker should be referred to as a cis man, which leaves all gender identities open to him... and you should be referred to as a cis woman... which again leaves all gender identities open to you...

But cis is completely meaningless if we believe that male/female and man/woman is not an identity but a chromosomal definition and currently non-changeable.

I think I am going with the super-woke PP above who sensibly suggested we don't deny science and therefore all identity as non-binary women!

'identify as non-binary women' not identity!

I don’t really have an interest in how people ‘feel’. It’s sex that is the relevant factor.

Turbo had also got it spot on for me and I've had a light bulb moment about why I personally find the word cis offensive. I'm slow on the uptake

I'm now 40+ and always either been a girl or woman. That's it. No other title required. It's worked well so far.

Now as Turbo says some people would insist this is not enough and I need another label to give "context to my biological sex in relation to someone else's identity ". Or confused reality.

Eyes fair enough your comfortable having this term applied to you. What are your thoughts on terms such as cervix havers? Menstruators? And as for no one noticing your friend using the ladies facilities. My 10 year old DD would notice however despite her own discomfort, embarrassment and possible fear would probably choose not to use the facilities so would leave to make way for a biological man because she doesn't want to make a fuss. What would be your view on that? actually you may have made that clear with "She doesn't need your consent". The mantra of the entitled Male.

Anyway OP I think like others I would humour this persons preferred pronoun crap ONLY if they stopped using this bullshit term in relation to me. I like the idea suggested upthread of a cheery, smiley "I'm sure you said that by mistake, please don't do it again" kind of response then move on.

Good luck, I'm sure depending on your work environment this is all easier said than done.

I cannot stand the term cis.

1. I do not accept that I need to continuously qualify my 'gender identity' as a biological female. My gender identity is none of your business, and frankly, the less I know about the gender identity of others, in a professional context, the better.

Gender identities are a bunch of subjectivity held feelings and in constant flux. Sex is an immutable biological fact.

1. I am a WOMAN, and not a subcategory of male or female queer theorists, which the word cis implies.

To paraphrase Jess Bradley, first paid trans union officer in U.K. history ‘I don;t think there is such a thing as a cis women’

I am a female. Animals, which humans are, do not "identify" as a sex (when their species is divided into sexes), they just are one. Some might do behaviours which socially mimick what the other sex has been expected to do and that is a beautiful part of nature. I'm one of them: I like to have sex with other females, which is a natural sex-based diversity. In a wildlife doc made by another species (if this were a thing) I would be one of the mild curiousities. There are a bunch of us. It doesn't actually change our sex though. It doesn't for any mammal of a species with more than one sex which has homosexual members.

It is human arrogance which thinks it is above nature rather than just a part of natural diversity. There are many ways that the female or the male of a species can be diverse. Cis and trans is a completely false dichotomy: neither really exist. It all rests on very strange cultural assumptions.

If we are all just male and female complete with totally natural divergent behaviours then this whole debate would not exist. We could get on with making sure that females, as potential child bearers, and those females who diverge from norms, are not subjected to unfairness or violence.

Cis/trans is a false binary, it doesn't really exist because so many of those who are divergent from norms are not 'trans' (a lot more females than males, I'd say, if not most of us, because of how constricted culture has been towards females via physical/social interpersonal violence from intimate males) and do not seek out a special category for ourselves. Neither are we 'cis' because we reject the constrictions falsely placed on our sex category above and beyond merely being the sex that can potentially carry children, and some of us even will never do that because of our sexual diversity.

Feminism has always been about protecting both females as a class and diversity within females as a class. That is how it should stay to be a remotely viable movement. Males could do with a similar movement to broaden acceptance of divergent males, to prevent violence.

Cis is a way to deny the reality of the vast majority of females who reject what is expected of them by this concept of 'gender' and only see themselves as 'women' in the sense that they are 'female'. And only see themselves as 'feminists' in the above defined way.

Cis is a pointless, and often a purposefully offensive word.

There really is no need to use it. Woman, man or person can always be used instead.

Be personally respectful but insist, clearly, that you also wish for 'her' to do likewise. The use of CIS is an imposition when uninvited.

Subvert it.

Spell it with an 's'

Siswomen

opposite of Browomen