Use of "cis"

[notwokeup]

What are your opinions on the use of cis? I have to say I hate it. It feels like an unnecessary prefix to me.

However, a young trans woman has just started at my work, and insists on referring to cis women (rarely cis men). Because of the work, I am loathe to say anything as I know that I would be in trouble. I have no problem using their preferred pronouns she/her, and she is a lovely person, although young (20) and quite naive. Yet I cringe every time she refers to women as cis.

Well if cis woman means someone who identifies as a woman and was assigned female at birth then I suppose that's me.

Woman is an adult female human, not an identity. I don't identify as a woman, I am one. It would be as absurd for me to 'identify as a man' as it would to 'identify as a cat'. Because I'm not those things. Biology matters.

Nobody is 'assigned' female or male at birth. Babies are observed to be either male or female. In the rare occurrences that this is not obvious, tests can be carried out. 'Assigned at birth' comes from the practice in the past of assigning a sex to babies with ambiguous genitalia when such tests were not available.

So I think that means that 'cis' is meaningless.

Irrespective of who posted what, there's a big question there you've not answered

What question?

OP:
However, a young trans woman has just started at my work, and insists on referring to cis women (rarely cis men).

8th rule of misogyny:
"Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

Several PP have provided various good suggestions, and thanks to each of them for that. Wish you all the best, OP, in maintaining your own integrity.

Woman is an adult female human, not an identity

I know loads of women who say they 'identify as women'. You don't, that's you.

So I think that means that 'cis' is meaningless.

That's fine. That's why I said OP should speak to her colleague and explain she doesn't want to be classed as cis. Hopefully she would then refrain from doing so. It doesn't offend me, the colleague may not realise that not everyone is ok with it.

Assigned female at birth is a nonsense. The medical staff had a quick look and were able to identify that I was female. I don't conform to stereotype but I'm a woman. The babies I carried were observed to be male or female.

This person sounds very young, so I wouldn't go all guns blazing. I would take a kind motherly tone, let them feel that I'm on their side in helping them to understand how to pass as a woman better.
Next time they say 'cis', I'd just quietly take them aside afterwards and say something like "dear, I know you mean well and we all accept you here, but assuming women's identity by calling them cis can be really offensive. I understand that to you it seems simple and innocuous, but I don't want to see you get in trouble or anything. Just plain woman is safer, thanks"

I too find cis really offensive. My 'identity' is not defined by males who think that womanhood is a feeling in a man's head.

I know loads of women who say they 'identify as women'. You don't, that's you.

What does it actually mean to 'identify as a woman'? I'm not sure that I actually 'identify' as anything - it's not a familiar concept to me.

Tbf, if EyesAreNeverClosing's personal beliefs include a sense of gender identity, that is entirely her own affair. She's as welcome to adopt a cis label as she is to state her beliefs about herself in any other language.

Others are free to question her thinking, and she's free to demur to her intangible inner feeling. That's the way freedom works.

What she can't do is insist that everyone else adopts her language as standard, but to be fair, I don't think she has done. I mean, yes, obviously I think its ridiculous and inherently misogynistic as an idea, but there are indeed a lot of things we go along with as individual women which come under those headings.

In fact, this rationale is precisely why I think MNHQ adopted the language policy to include 'cis' so that you can term yourself cis if you wish, but you don't get to appellate others in that way. Which, broadly, is fair enough.

What does it actually mean to 'identify as a woman

Different things to different women. Knowing someone who is a trans woman I have come to think that gender identity is often not something you necessarily think about unless you have a problem with it. The ease I felt being me is my gender identity I think. The trans woman I know feels comfortable now. She doesn't dress in particularly 'feminine' clothes and she doesn't try to look particularly 'feminine'. She does look 'feminine' though and never looked 'masculine' but has a hobby that is traditionally more popular with men. It's definitely not about stereotypes for her. I have another friend who's gender identity is definitely tied up with stereotypes.

So: "gender identity" is a woolly, grey, individually subjective area; whereas sex class, in over 99% of cases, is crystal clear from conception, let alone birth.

"Assigned at birth" is the ultimate in weasel words.

CaptainMarvelBunting

Thank you.

I wouldn't say I've adopted a cis label, more that I just don't find it offensive. If others do I think they should challenge the person. The trans woman I know would be upset if she thought any language she used was offensive to anyone. She refers to herself as a woman or a trans woman and I've only heard her use cis a couple of times when talking about trans issues.

The only thing that annoys me is when people say trans women are men and seem to enjoy upsetting trans women by saying it. I wish they would just call them trans women if they don't want to call them women. They say feelings don't matter, but they really do and when you have seen a lovely trans woman being upset because she's been called a man by a random person who she had hardly any involvement with, you just think why.

*..when you have seen a lovely trans woman being upset because she's been called a man by a random person..."

An appeal to traditional female socialisation to be kind and self-effacing and accommodating to men, to save men's hurty feelz?

No, bollocks to that.

Does the transwoman you know use female facilities?

An appeal to traditional female socialisation to be kind and self-effacing and accommodating to men, to save men's hurty feelz?

No, bollocks to that.

Does the transwoman you know use female facilities

This is the type of attitude I just can't understand. "Men's hurty feelz". You truly revolt me.

But in answer to your question, yes she uses the female facilities. No one has ever said anything. I wouldn't think they noticed.

EyesAreNeverClosing, well, doing things things with the deliberate intention to upset is quite mean, yes. Personally I refuse to use the word woman in connection with anyone who isn't a woman now, even with the trans prefix. But I don't seek people out to underline my stance by being mean.

But I'll be honest, the unhappiness of women actually rides far higher in my conscience than any male, however they see themselves. I don't choose to be deliberately mean - but I have seen how much women have been hurt by the pretence, so I make my choices based on that as the main factor.

We can spot males trying to present as females. Cos it's bleeding obvious.

Even babies and small children can differentiate between women and men, however men or women may present.

Even animals can differentiate between women and men. I have seen this with horses, cats, dogs, cows and goats. Sheep, too, possibly!

How about that for male arrogance? For fuck's sakes! A man who just takes all women's consent for granted. What a despicable example of a male

No woman I know could care less who's weeing in the next cubicle or who's washing their hands in the next sink. Not all women think like you although you find that hard to accept. She doesn't need their consent.

She's being rude an insulting, quite a leap for a newbie!

It doesn't help that she seems to being channeling LM in terms of style, which again makes me cringe!! It's making me want to wear an I ❤️ Julie Bindel T-shirt!

CIS only refers to you being what you were when you were born, and we're all that, male or female, regardless of what any have done to their bodies! So a pointless exercise in saying it. It's just pushing a nasty rhetoric

But by law, she doesn't need their consent. If that changes she wouldn't use a toilet she wasn't allowed to because she doesn't break the law.

A man who strides into a female only area is arrogant and out of order! Certainly doesn't give a shit for the safety or respect of the women

She's the opposite of arrogant. She's quiet and kind. She doesn't make women unsafe. She respects women. You can make her out to be a monster but it doesn't mean that she is. Don't base all trans women on the ones that have done bad. There's bad people in every group of people.

Quote by EyesAreNeverClosing Mon 11-Mar-19 02:04:08:

But by law, she doesn't need their consent.

You are saying that men do not need women's consent.

That is sick. You are denying women their own right to their own physical integrity.