Use of "cis"

[notwokeup]

What are your opinions on the use of cis? I have to say I hate it. It feels like an unnecessary prefix to me.

However, a young trans woman has just started at my work, and insists on referring to cis women (rarely cis men). Because of the work, I am loathe to say anything as I know that I would be in trouble. I have no problem using their preferred pronouns she/her, and she is a lovely person, although young (20) and quite naive. Yet I cringe every time she refers to women as cis.

You are saying that men do not need women's consent

I'm saying she is within the law to use the female toilet so she doesn't need to ask every woman in there if she can use the toilet.

That is sick

You are starting to sound a little crazy now by deliberately changing what I have said.I don't think it's doing anyone any good for me to respond to you, least of all you. I wish you well.

I would just play to their game, put on the best “I am so offended face and voice” and ask them to stop misgendering you: tell them your preferred pronouns are she/her and you like to be referred to as ‘a woman’.

No woman I know could care less who's weeing in the next cubicle or who's washing their hands in the next sink.

I wonder why we have sex segregated toilets?

If it's doesn't matter who is in the next cubicle, why can't male transpeople lead by example on use the mens facilities?

EyesAreNeverClosing Mon 11-Mar-19 02:28:07:

You are starting to sound a little crazy now by deliberately changing what I have said.I don't think it's doing anyone any good for me to respond to you, least of all you. I wish you well.

Glad that you've realised you've been rumbled. We recognise you for what you are. Men's rights activists.

You have told us, several times, that women's consent does not matter to you and your mate. Men's rights activists.

You have now chosen to withdraw. I just hope you now have a think about your toxic attitude towards women and women's rights and women's personal integrity.

Where does this idea that sex is assigned at birth.
It's not assigned ever, its determined prior to birth, in the womb, by the sperm that fertilises the egg. That is biological determination it cannot be changed, or assigned. Where is this nonsense made up unscientific nonsense coming from.

We are all still what that sperm dictated we are. The term CIS has been adopted, its basis in chemistry double bonded polymers, nothing to do with sex.

I don't have the energy to engage in the whole debate right now but I just wanted to pop in as a reply to Zutt and say that all of the trans men I know (and I know five or six, two of whom are very close friends of mine) do indeed use the men's toilets. Obviously the main reason they use the men's is because they want to and it feels right to them, but it's also because several of them are on testosterone and would feel incredibly uncomfortable using the women's as they have deep voices, facial hair, and a generally masculine stature. They (quite rightly, in my opinion) feel it would be unfair on women to use their facilities as it would likely come across as very intimidating to any other women in the room. I certainly wouldn't be comfortable if I saw any of them in the women's without already knowing that they're trans.

I'm honestly too tired to find a point in regards to what this means or how this impacts the debate, but I just wanted to mention it as I know there's a lot less discussion about trans men and how they fit into the whole picture and, knowing quite a few trans men, I felt it was worth offering that experience for future reference.

Glad that you've realised you've been rumbled. We recognise you for what you are. Men's rights activists

😂😂😂 Where to start with that ? You say 'we' as if you are part of a club. Your posts stick out like a sore thumb on this thread. No one else is acting like you. They may disagree, that's debate but you really are something else. Are your desperate attempts to get me angry? Or to get attention? You won't make me angry and I'm going to stop giving you attention now. I'm sorry that you seem to be having trouble.

If it's doesn't matter who is in the next cubicle, why can't male transpeople lead by example on use the mens facilities

Male trans people ? I'm confused. Lead by example to who ? Do you mean trans women or trans men?

The trans woman I am talking about looks very much like a woman. She's about 5'6" and very slightly built. She looks more feminine that her sister who was born female. She chooses to use the female toilets as at the moment by law she can and feels she blends in better there.

I do understand not everyone feels how I and women I know feel about the issue of toilets. We have been in nightclubs when younger and used the men's toilets as there's a huge queue for the women's so it just doesn't bother us. I've never noticed someone who looks like a man using a female toilet. I don't really look though. I don't like using public toilets really so I'm out of there as quick as possible.

Does your trans mate have a penis? Yes? Then belongs in a mens toilet. I don’t care how ‘feminine’ Your mate looks.

OP my username says what I think.

Channeling LM would drive me nuts!!

I am wondering if the way to deal with this would be better through HR. If you say anything at all, other than how you personally want to be addressed - and then you'd possibly need to make a statement to avoid LM2 claiming you're bullying or other shite - LM2 will potentially make a big deal out of it.

So would telling HR that you're concerned that LM2 will get in trouble with the public by using the term cis and even Stonewall don't use it. That LM2 is also assuming other members of the public's identity and that simply referring to women as women would make LM2 less vulnerable? Outwoke HR then let them deal?

Sounds like a nightmare.

Is it possible to identify as "anti binary"? I think that will be my go-to if this ever comes up in my workplace.

Male trans people ? I'm confused.

Why are you confused?

The trans woman I am talking about looks very much like a woman. She's about 5'6" and very slightly built. She looks more feminine that her sister who was born female

The definition of women isn't someone 'who is 5'6", slightly built and more feminine than their sister'. Otherwise lots of women wouldn't qualify and most male transpeople.

Why are you confused?

Because you said

why can't male transpeople lead by example on use the mens facilities

Male trans people = trans men. Are you asking why can't trans men lead by example and use the men's toilets? Therefore trans women use the women's toilets but you don't appear in favour of that. So it's ok for trans men to use the men's but not for trans women to use the women's. You want all trans people to use the men's?

I’m 5’7’’ and unfeminine, into the men’s I go!

Seriously, I would have no problem with trans men in my loo - beards, deep voices and all. Dysphoric women still deserve the same protection of a single sex space, and as we’ve sadly seen, they can be as vulnerable to male harassment and violence as non-dysphoric women.

Tell her that you are a woman and that's how you define yourself, no "cis".

She respects women.

She doesn't need their consent

I dont know one single woman who identifies as a woman

I do know that if i spoke to everyone i interact with and told them that they had to pick an identity they would all pick woman/man

They don't identify as anything...but if pushed and told they HAD to identify...that would be different

And i also dont know one single woman who would be happy with a man in the next cubicle...again they might think it was fine for a transwoman to be in there (not understanding the self ID thing)

But man ? No

Male trans people = trans men

Nope

That poster means that transwomen should lead by example and use the gents

Because if we were all non-binary they wouldn't be special any more.

Which is why everyone should say that they are. To demonstrate that it is a meaningless fad.

That's the problem when a small, but influential group of people change the words women and female. We stop being able to have a feminist conversation about women and girls rights.

I'm sure it was an unintended consequence.

No woman I know could care less who's weeing in the next cubicle or who's washing their hands in the next sink.

That's rather an unlikely sweeping statement.

Does your friend have a GRC eyes? If not it’s not correct she has a right legally to use the female facilities.

I actually think you raise an important issue because the trans umbrella now doesn’t just include trans women who genuinely wish to live their lives as women and quietly use the female facilities (such advice your friend), but also trans women who remain masculine (Danielle moscato is an extreme but there’s obviously a spectrum), and fender fluid people who may only wish to live as a woman on occasional days.

For my part I have no problem with your friend in the women’s toilets - but I have no mandate to speak for all women. I don’t think your friend is probably helped by the aggressive overreaching from Stonewall in trying to widen the trans umbrella and diminish the importance of sex as this has caused a lot of push back.

*such as your friend

She doesn't make women unsafe.

How do you know? Do you accompany her every time she uses the single sex facilities that she believes she doesn’t need women’s consent to use?