Observer: Trans model Munroe Bergdorf says she feels threatened by other women

[frazzled1]

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/10/transgender-model-threat-from-women

“I don’t feel safe because of other women,” Bergdorf said to the Women of the World audience. “That’s really weighing heavily on me.”

The mixed-race former L’Oréal model also said she had “dreaded” attending the event due to the threat she detects from “cisgender” females – those women who were assigned their gender at birth.

What does those women who were assigned their gender at birth mean Observer?

MB does not approve of current discussions re male bodied people competing in women's sport. MB feels 'threatened' by women and says there is no threat to women from transwomen.... well, where to start. Male violence, see also transcrimeuk.com.

Amazes me that those who wish to live as if they had been born a woman lack insight into the lives of women (born women).

Yeah, quite a lot of us are doing and talking about positive things. But your suggestion of not pointing put males being feted and their harmful views given credence by media means that they would be able to continue to undermine women's rights as they have been successfully attempting to for the last few years.

This is about holding people to account- yes, this may well be click bait out of context quoting. Which means it needs to be discussed because that kind of thing is fuelled by other agendas that also need sunlight.

Your critique here may be that Munroe is a nonentity narc and no one would disagree. But when non entity narcs are given platforms, they need to be countered. Telling us to shut up and do something else instead assumes we're not doing something else too, and that being quiet about this shit will help. It won't.

loraline

Will you stop the fuck telling women how to react to what MB and other TRAs say?

I am at a loss to understand how deconstructing MRA rhetoric is being presented as an unhelpful thing to do...

Yeah okay. I agree in a way. I've just been round long enough to think that being reactive rarely gets you anyway. Being proactive about what you want works better. It frustrates me endlessly that fuckwits like Trump and Farage have made SUCH and impact on the world because they got so much fucking airtime when they should have been a bad joke that was ignored. We can't let the same thing keep happening

I've bit told anyone to shut up. I never would. Just offering a viewpoint based on my observations of the.mess the world is in. Take it or leave it. Can't hurt to throw it out there though.

Funny how often it seems to boil down to either 'you're womaning/feministing wrong' or just a really nicely dressed up version of 'women shut up'.

I think I'm good here thanks.

I didn’t say you told anyone to shut up.

I said you keep telling women how they should be reacting to the anti-women bullshit that MB keeps coming out with.

Do it yourself, if it makes you feel good.

Populists get traction because the progressives tell the general public to ignore them and don't bother addressing their ideas. So they get the kudos of the misunderstood underdog, and because no one bothers to counter them, their ideas are gobbled up by the dispossessed.

Munroe is not a populist, but is certainly trading on the same ticket, only Munroes target is the progressives and the wannabe wokesters. Same principles apply. As they always do. Someone comes to you with an idea that has grave potential to cause harm, you don't ignore it because it's dumb, you address it.

Munroe talks a lot of offensive shit. It needs to be countered, especially when the left leaning media is presenting it as good.

Being proactive about what you want works better.

Jesus fucking tapdancing Christ.

How the fuck do you know what women here do or don't do? Who are you to police the conversations they have? Can you envisage any of us having conversations or even doing things outside this one thread you've decided to involve yourself in and patrol?

No. You haven't.

You began on this thread trying to instil compliance in other women. When that didn't work, you instructed them to put their heads in the sand and ignore extreme MRA views and DARVO being presented as acceptable discourse at women's events.

That is anti-feminist. And you seem surprised feminists are not saying yes ma'am, no ma'am. Unbelievable.

Yeah, that’s what I meant to say

"Starve her of the oxygen and controversy and she becomes a non entity."

me not posting about it on MN will do fuck all to reduce her opportunities to put her message across, while feminist events continue to invite MB to speak, and papers and TV companies keep giving MB airtime.

"If you ignore them they'll go away" has rarely worked in my actual life and I don't know why it should work in this situation.

If I don't post on MN about it then MB continues the same and there's one less voice reminding people of MBs past behaviour etc. MBs narrative becomes entirely controlled by MB with no counter views / dissent etc. Which let's remind oursleves is what MB wants - for women who don't agree 110% with everything MB says to shut up and fuck off.

And please don't blame me for Donald Trump being elected! WTAF.

You "detect" threats from women? If only my fears required such sensitive powers of perception!

" several pages later still talking about her."

The thread is about MB! Obviosuly that's who we're talking about.

And when she IS spouting hateful stuff (and I don't usually pay enough attention to her to see that stuff) just ignore it.

Why should we just ignore it? Munroe is quite often invited onto national TV or to write for national press to spout shite tell women how to women debate the issues. Munroe has made a documentary aired on Channel 4. Munroe has demanded someone be removed from an event for having concerns about the possible abuse of an 11 year old child.

Why should he 'just ignore' Munroe when Munroe is being given such a big platform?

this

"Let me see... You have the choice between worrying about men who might literally (in the correct sense of the word "literally") physically assault you (because yes, transphobia, in its correct sense of an irrational hatred of people who are gender non-conforming, is a real thing, but, like pretty much all other violence in the world, statistically, it's overwhelmingly carried out by men), or worrying about women who disagree with your pseudo-religious world view about gender fairies, whose only interest in the issue is defending women's spaces, but who actually support you in your right to be gender non-conforming. And you choose to be frightened of women."

I have no idea which planet Bergdof is on. Seriously. I have been subjected to harassment and intimidation several times when I feared for my safety. Every time the perpetrators were male. Worst I ever get from females is along the lines of "You're a man, Hayton, and we want you to clear off". But never has a woman contacted my employer to try and get me sacked, or written horrible hit pieces about me.

I always come back to the Margaret Atwood quote (along the lines of) men fear that women will laugh at them; women fear that men may kill them.

Seems that some transwomen are far more bothered about women laughing at them than men killing them. I wonder what that says about them?

I'm a transwoman by the way.

It's tricky about the attention thing, whether we give Bergdorf it or not. They are extremely good at courting controversy (all whites are racist etc), empowering us with their lingerie etc
But Bergdorf would be an advisor to the labour party if attention hadn't been drawn to their homophobic tweets.

I agree with debbie, it's men that would actually threaten Bergdorf in the real world.

Actually this makes me really angry.

How dare Bergdorf declare themselves a woman and then tell us that we, women, make them feel threatened.

It's unfuckingbelievable.

or rather. to quote bergdorf - I dont feel safe - in the class of people they have muscled themselves into.

How dare Bergdorf blame Bergdorf's issues on women.

I think MB is shocked that women don't protect MB.

MB is calling out women for not performing a useful role.

Protect MB from who or what though?

From psychic injury created when confronted by the Reality Principle.

In other words, from dying like Tinkerbell whenever anyone stops clapping.

Clear-sighted women who take no bull-sugar are a threat.

They won't lie, they won't be co-erced into being nice, and they won't play along. They see through the facade. Their courage in speaking the truth encourages other women to declare themselves non-believers.

Life was so simple when you could appeal to their socialisation and gas-light them into playing along. Life was tickety boo when you could shut them up with accusations of transphobia. The tactics no longer work.

Worse still, the general public are lining up behind these women. Every time you appear on TV or in newspapers, and tell everyone how nasty women, you lose even more former allies.

It's over.

Every Bergdorf interview ever

"me, me, me, me, me. Did I mention me? Poor persecuted me, me, me. Yes that's me".

God its tedious.

Protect MB from who or what though?

Reality.