Observer: Trans model Munroe Bergdorf says she feels threatened by other women

[frazzled1]

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/10/transgender-model-threat-from-women

“I don’t feel safe because of other women,” Bergdorf said to the Women of the World audience. “That’s really weighing heavily on me.”

The mixed-race former L’Oréal model also said she had “dreaded” attending the event due to the threat she detects from “cisgender” females – those women who were assigned their gender at birth.

What does those women who were assigned their gender at birth mean Observer?

MB does not approve of current discussions re male bodied people competing in women's sport. MB feels 'threatened' by women and says there is no threat to women from transwomen.... well, where to start. Male violence, see also transcrimeuk.com.

Amazes me that those who wish to live as if they had been born a woman lack insight into the lives of women (born women).

MB is afraid of women disagreeing with them.

I don't see fear. I see the pretence of fear to enforce compliance from women via their Inner Beryl.

I don't have an Inner Beryl (expelled long since) and so have no intention of performing compliance.

Well, let's just invite some PUAs to the next women's even then, shall we? Much better to listen and compromise because we all have something to learn from one another, right? How about some rapists? Some domestic abusers?

Er, no. Fuck that.

You can listen, learn and try to move forwards in a way that works for us all or you can dig in

You basically mean 'women, compromise'.

No. Because any compromise means surrendering the civil and human rights of women to placate and appease a group of males.

That, to me, is worth digging in for, and staying dug in for as long as it takes for people to realise that disadvantaging women and reducing their rights solely to placate and indulge a small group of men's feelings is morally and ethically wrong.

The trouble is, MB has sought to divide and alienate women at every turn. MB's reputation precedes them.

The problem is that the extreme trans ideology is alienating a lot of women and driving a wedge between women and trans women, which simply wouldn’t be there if people like Munroe were slightly more respectful of our differences and the role of female biology in our oppression.

'Women and male transpeople' isn't a group, we have nothing in common other than being human. The idea that we have a link that excludes other men is not true.

And trust me, no gender crit woman here has failed to either listen or learn exactly who and what this movement is that has come for their rights and identity.

We did listen, and we had a compromise. It was called the Gender Recognition Act, 2004. Remind me what happened next.

Not RTFT

Maybe MB was feeling twitchy / had some hostility about attending the IWD event, because lots of women remember MBs speaking out against "gynocentric" feminism on womens marches last year, and how women holding placards / talking about etc any related to women's reproductive systems ie abortion etc were exclusionary and also MEAN and should STFU about it all .

If MB senses hostility from women / feminists, they have fucking good reasons to feel hostile.

MB is still 1000000% more likely to actually expereince aggresion / violence from a MAN but let's just gloss over that eh.

Don't most people get their gender assigned before birth these days - what with scans and all that?
Is there a point when you can't read anything at all without thinking bollox and your brain exploding?

You can listen, learn and try to move forwards in a way that works for us all or you can dig in shrugs

Learn what though? Serious question. I’m literally exhausted by forced trans ideology. I know more than I could ever imagined possible because they never shut the fuck up about it. We did listen, we did learn but it never went both ways, we just got threats and force in return and now look where we are.

"You can listen, learn and try to move forwards in a way that works for us all or you can dig in shrugs"

Feb 2018
"Women are getting feminism wrong" by MB
graziadaily.co.uk/life/opinion/munroe-bergdorf-women-getting-feminism-wrong/

"Feminism: the advocacy of women’s rights based on the equality of the sexes. A simple enough concept, right? Wrong! This is 2018 and if the past two years have taught us anything, it’s that nothing is simple any more – especially when it comes to matters of equality and identity.

As a society, our understanding of the language we use to describe aspects of gender, sex and sexuality is evolving. We’re beginning to understand that identity isn’t always black and white, it’s more like a sliding scale in which all can self-identify. What makes a woman ‘a woman’ has no definitive answer, nor does it need one."

It's a good read.
I learnt a lot about MBs views.

hdh

No. The sex of the fetus (as apparent on the scan, because occasionally scans can be incorrectly interpreted) is observed.

The notion of either sex or gender (incorrect term in this context) being "assigned" is hijacked from the experiences of intersex people. (And in the case of intersex people, "assigning" of sex to a baby with ambiguous genitalia is rather more considered these days).

I can't find the thing about gynocentric feminism - I think it's a tweet that MB refers to in the article above.

I'm not saying MB is right about anything. I'm saying that it was a tiny part of what she said yesterday blown up by The Obs with the specific intent of getting you all this riled up.

If you genuinely want to fight this , stop giving people like MB or The Obs so much oxygen and anger filled fuel.

So basically

Last year around womens marches MB made some comments that were highly imflammatory to feminists and women in general.

This year MB senses some hostility from "cis" women at feminist events. Or at least, did before they actually went, they assumed in advance there would be hostility.

MB decided that if they sensed hostility this would be down to transphobia

Rather than down to MBs form for dismissing the issues women and girls face all over the world, due to their biology, telling them they are not allowed to talk about it, or sing about it, or hold placards about it, or wear t-shirts about it, and should instead be "inclusive" and only agitate about things that affect all women, by that you can read, things that affect MB.

Whole thing is fucking ridiculous and Guardian are pandering to it.

Short summary:

MRA and antifeminist worries some women may exude a sense of "not 100% welcoming" to them at feminist conference.

Loraline

Are you saying that women on here should not discuss MBs attitude to women, whether MB is a good choice for these events etc?

We should not pay attention when MB says women (feminists) are violent and MB is scared of them when this is a ludicrous statement? Not post to say FFS what is MB on about now?

I'm not so much angry as resigned TBH.

If you genuinely want to fight this , stop giving people like MB or The Obs so much oxygen and anger filled fuel.

Stop telling women to be nicer and perform more female socialisation.

If Munroe doesn't want inflammatory MRA remarks repeated, Munroe would do best to advise Munroeself not to make inflammatory MRA remarks in the first place.

Why don't you go and demand some female socialisation from Munroe, since you clearly seem to think that would help Munroe woman better?

MeAgainAgain
I think it's well established what she thinks. She keeps saying it because people keep talking about her. Newspapers print it because it gets them clicks. Starve her of the oxygen and controversy and she becomes a non entity. This is how Trump got elected. Remember what a joke it was when he announced? But people were fascinated so every tiny thing he said became news . Next thing you know he's elected.

MB gets a platform because she's newsworthy. Stop rising to it yeah.

Take the high road. Women should talk about what's important and needed for THEM. Let's stop talking about everyone else.

It's not about female socialisation. It's well proven that this doesn't work. Be really fucking loud and bolshie and angry. Scream and shout. But scream and shout FOR something, not against ranty individuals who should be irrelevant and are controlling the agenda.

MB gets a platform because she's newsworthy. Stop rising to it yeah.

Oh yes the grown up version of “just ignore them” when you’re being bullied as a child. Just ignoring never works though does it? They just get more and more pushy because no one is doing anything to stop them.

ranty individuals who should be irrelevant

Do you mean MB?

Make up your mind. Just a page ago, you were telling us that we should listen, learn and try to move forwards in a way that works for us all.

I am at a loss to understand how deconstructing MRA rhetoric is being presented as an unhelpful thing to do...

... well, I'm not, but jus' sayin'.

I said that because what she was saying yesterday wasn't the kinds of things being quoted in this thread. She was actually interesting yesterday. Bit the Obs picked up on the one tiny bit that would get people riled up and here we all are, several pages later still talking about her. And when she IS spouting hateful stuff (and I don't usually pay enough attention to her to see that stuff) just ignore it.