David Lloyd changing room policy in Huffpost

[Dinneratbreadsticks]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/david-lloyd-trans-access-gym_uk_5c825491e4b0d9361626ec6c

Leading UK gym chain David Lloyd does not permit trans people to use changing rooms in line with the gender they identify with, unless they can produce a gender recognition certificate.

In a HuffPost UK analysis of several national gym chains and their policies on changing rooms – including Nuffield Health, PureGym, Everyone Active, EasyGym, The Gym Group and Virgin Active – David Lloyd was the only one to require this documentation from a trans person wishing to use the changing room for their identified gender.

I do visit a (not DL ) gym quiet late a night, the changing rooms are often empty,

I've no idea how to handle the situation if there's a penis person in there with me, how do I know if they are a benign TW or a voyeuristic man trying it on. This would make me consider swapping to DL when my contract is up.

I thought Bannatyne changing was single sex as well? Duncan Bannatyne spoke out on twitter?

Good to know about David Lloyd as well though.

Thank god I ended my Nuffield health membership years ago. The changing rooms are open there with no privacy. My god. I would much rather do fitness blender in my living room!

The article says this re: Bannatyne,

Last year Duncan Bannatyne, founder of the Bannatyne gym group, was outspoken in his opposition to people using the changing room for the gender they identified with.. A spokesperson for Bannatyne gyms declined to comment on whether this was consistent with the chain’s policy and refused to share details of their policy.

You won't know if a penis person in the changing room is benign or not, how can you? This is a hugely important part of the GC argument. Well done David Lloyd - they'll probably mop up lots of women refugees from other gyms.

Bannatyne gym group, was outspoken in his opposition to people using the changing room for the gender they identified with.. A spokesperson for Bannatyne gyms declined to comment on whether this was consistent with the chain’s policy and refused to share details of their policy.

Interesting.....

Off to find my nearest David Lloyd.

I do also wonder how long my gym can keep up the sign in the women's changing that says no boys over 8 surely that goes against the pick whichever changing room you want policy?

Excellent! I'm a David Lloyd member and I'd reconsider if this became an issue. Their gyms are very child / family friendly, it was one of the main reasons I joined so that DD could do activities when I was working out. We still go there together now she's an older teen. There are lots of teens / young women in the changing rooms, which are largely open plan, so I think DL are being sensible given their target market.

I just read the actual article and would like to add that if someone doesn't have £140 for a GRC they're not going to be able to afford David Lloyd!

David Lloyd are already under attack from the TRAs over this. If you have a moment, please show them some love on Twitter. Their handle is @DavidLloydUK.

I'm a member, and I'm very relieved they have clarified their policy. I have a few female friends who are also members. None of the women I know at DL would be impressed by random males stripping off alongside them!

I am a David Lloyd member and I had already raised this with them and been told that they only allow transgender women with a gender recognition certificate. This would be the problem if self ID was introduced because anyone could get a gender recognition certificate and so at that point I think the policy would have to be reconsidered which would be detrimental to transsexuals in a way.

I would imagine David Lloyd would then go down the route of providing a gender neutral changing room alongside male and female for transgender people to use.

I agree EverardDigby I used to be a member of DL more than 10 years ago, off peak membership was around £42pm/£500yr so a GRC is cheap in comparison. Also think it's funny how Huffpost put such a negative spin on the story, I would of thought 95% if the population would agree with DL and see it as a sensible move.

if someone doesn't have £140 for a GRC they're not going to be able to afford David Lloyd!

And that’s the sad bit, privacy should be for all women, not just those that can afford it.

A good way to show appreciation is to respond to DL's International Women's Day tweet here:

twitter.com/DavidLloydUK/status/1103948748294631425

And that’s the sad bit, privacy should be for all women, not just those that can afford it.

That's true, but for some reason private gyms seem to be open plan changing whereas local authority type tend to have cubicles, so the impact of a penis-haver in open plan might be greater.

I would imagine David Lloyd would then go down the route of providing a gender neutral changing room alongside male and female for transgender people to use.

Hard to see how this would work though, given the TRA veritable obsession with being in women's spaces. They don't want their own spaces - the prison protest proves this. They want our spaces.

For now, though, if I had any intention of joining a gym - DL all the way, and I'm grateful to them for considering the safety and dignity of women and girls.

I’m a DL member and have wondered what their take on this would be as the female changing area is mostly communal so nudity common. There is a small family/mixed style changing room as well - so there would be no need for a TW, especially an obviously male sppearing TW to use the female only one. A female staff member came round one day - 3 times to warn everyone a male worker would be coming through soon so they obviously realise a male presence would create a problem. They’re probably just crossing their fingers that it doesn’t happen.

David Lloyd clubs already have third spaces - called "family changing rooms", which have individual cubicles for changing, and cublice showers too.

(I'm not sure all clubs have this, but the ones I've been in all have them.)

Some of the comments on Twitter say it's illegal to ask someone to show their GRC - does anyone know what the truth is there? presumably the law envisages some circumstances where a GRC would be produced, otherwise what's the point of the certificate?

There are always mixed sex "family" changing rooms, but I can see that trans people may not feel comfortable there either. It's not an ideal situation, but that doesn't make it right for men to be in women's changing. I've messaged DL privately to indicate my support but I see there are plenty of people saying thank you publicly on Twitter too.

(by the way, my username is coincidence - nothing to do with David Lloyd).

I'm a DL member too and I'm happy there will be no penises in my changing rooms. I would definitely cancel my membership otherwise.

If producing a GRC is a problem, then that would suggest it would be in line with the EA to exclude trans people with a GRC too as a proportionate measure to ensure the safety, privacy and dignity of women.

Some of the comments on Twitter say it's illegal to ask someone to show their GRC - does anyone know what the truth is there?

I actually think that might be correct. They don't need to ask them to show their GRC though - just their birth certificate.

EverardDigby

"Some of the comments on Twitter say it's illegal to ask someone to show their GRC "

The sole purpose of obtaining a GRC is to enable the change of the reference to sex on a Birth Certificate.

It is legal to ask to see the Birth Certificate [no-one can ask to see the actual GRC].

The GRC is a Legal Fiction device originally created [via the Gender Recognition Act 2004] to circumvent same-sex marriage [before this became law in 2013] and to enable claiming for state pension [before equalised pension ages became law].

The GRA 2004 was created to cater for the needs of circa five thousand [5000] individuals in UK at the time.

The only document that can prove a GRC has been obtained is the Birth Certificate.

All other documents like driving licence and passport can have the reference to sex changed without a GRC.

Gender Recognition Act 2004: www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/contents

Thanks for explaining that, Jacky. Just to clarify your last point, are you saying that someone with a GRC who has changed their birth certificate can then use the birth certificate to change the sex on their passport without producing the GRC? You're not saying that someone who never had a GRC could change the sex on their passport?

So David Lloyd would be better off expressing their policy as "if it says female on your passport then you can go in the female changing room." (Although I think this is still a problematic policy because given the above it leaves a route for some with male anatomy to access women's spaces).