Opting out of trans and LGB lessons

[SparklySneakers]

My daughter is objecting to her school making her do LGBT sessions this month. She does not want to go to school for that week. She doesn't see why she has to learn about it, believes you can love whoever you want to love, be whoever you want to be but that you can't change sex.
Can see object or rather me on her behalf? Or maybe a better question is how I can get her to make the most of these sessions.

I want my kids to grow up accepting people for who they are.

And there we have it.

Why didn't you just say so in the first place?

You don't believe that respect applies to girls and you don't think lessons about respecting others should include teaching girls how to assert their boundaries and boys how to respect them.

If girls attempt to do this, they should be told to be compliant.

Oh well. At least we got there in the end!

It helps if we have an explanation to go on though.

I had a trans friend at uni. Possibly not the best example (as he was weird. Creepy weird and the friendship died.) but he's my only one.

He fully embraced the "feminine look" after he'd done the recommended by psychiatrist androgynous stage. Full on wig (he was balding anyway) make up, feathery voice, flicking of hair, long flowing skirts, call me Monica. Yet he letched after the pretty younger students. Made my skin crawl. Not because he was trans but because of the way he behaved. He alienated a lot of people. There's something somewhere about how we don't trust what we see and know as false. Must read up on it.

He was so stereotypically feminine. It was a mockery of women almost. I think he was a very damaged man and saw being a woman as solving his problems.

There was a point to this but the drugs have kicked in so I've lost my train of thought. Goodnight all. Hoping to wake up to a convincing explanation in the morning.

Goodnight Sparkly keep advocating for your daughter as only you can!

I want my kids growing up accepting people for who they are.

As do I. My daughter accepts males as males, because that is who they are. She does not accept males for who they are not.

What you really mean is: I want my kids growing up accepting people for who they SAY that are.

In other words: I want my kids growing up subordinating their perceptions of material reality to others’ subjectivities.

In other words: I want my kids growing up placing themselves second to the emotional needs of others.

I believe that’s called “traditional female socialisation,” something feminists have been analysing and critiquing for decades, where girls and women are meant to be the facilitators of boys and men, the flattering mirror reflecting back to them what they want to see in themselves.

Unfortunately, the reality is that you aren’t going to convince an entire populace that they must lie about what their own eyes see. Many totalitarian regimes have tried and failed. Catherine the Great may have thought the Potemkin Villages were lovely, but the people for whom facade provided no shelter knew differently.

That insistence on a fundamental lie regarding basic human materiality is why the genderist project is doomed to fail.

The sooner supporters of trans people reground themselves in the reality principle and begin to advocate from the standpoint that feminized men are still men, and in need of protection from discrimination and harassment on that basis, the better.

Perfectly put BickerinBrattle.

I see there has been no explanation forthcoming

I want my kids growing up accepting people for who they are.

And I want my child to grow up knowing what people are and what they are not (even if they say different). Say you are a man, woman it tree - but you are what you are.

So the person I read about in the paper recently who transitioned, and then decided that they actually were an asexual alien - is that what they are? They were surprised that although their family supported their decision to cost metic ally change sex, they grew the line at declaring them ‘arf from the planet zorg’ (or whatever).

A bit late to the party I know. But I’ve had some limited success with my children’s school by telling them that as the parent of a daughter who is a lesbian I’m very concerned about the lesbophobia in their PSHE curriculum ( this child isn’t a pupil at their school BTW) .

Also when they started to teach about transgender hate crime , I asked them how many of these crimes had occurred in the school or even in the area, given there were 36 in the entire country last year. And also what they were doing about the many incidents of sexual harassment and sexual assault that happened IN SCHOOL and outside school involving their pupils.

They have yet to get back to me on the second one but the lessons on transgender hate crime from the police have been postponed.

Go you! That is exactly what I am talking about! Kids are bullied for being gay, having a disability, wearing glasses, etc- every bloody day.

I’d even guess that more that 36 kids are beaten up and bullied for having red hair every day. When is their assembly?

Well said, BickerinBrattle!

Our family rule is to always tell the truth no matter what. It's been that way since the eldest was 5 and learnt her dad was a pathological liar. The truth is important and our lives will not be built on lies, therefore the lie of trans goes against our family philosophy and they will call out that lie. Not out loud but to themselves. It will cause them disquiet and confusion to be expected to collude with lies. And no child should ever have to collude with lies.

How long have women had to smile and nod?

Men - the boss, better paid, more freedom, in some cultures their word is with more than several women... we are used to seeing through the lies.

Hurrah to BickerinBrattle and excellent suggestions IM0GEN.

I too would be asking the school where their pro-girl lesson plans had got to.

And no child should ever have to collude with lies.

I've got to work now but I don't understand what lies she had to collude with ?

The lies that people can change sex

Oh come one, TV. It's like here on MN, where you can't say someone is a man even if there is no way you think they are a woman. This is school, not just a lecture there could be worksheets to fill in with disingenuous answers, and crappy Genderbread Persons, and a show of hands for 'Who thinks this is a girl?' all sorts of things where answering with this child's honest view would be seen as 'wrong'.

If it's presented as 'people who believe in gender identity think...' as you would for religious views, that would be acceptable.

• come on, not one! Hate to think what that might mean.

But she wasn't told people can change sex.

What’s saying ‘transwomen are women’ if it’s not saying people can change sex?

If a boy says he is a girl what is he actually saying? Or vice versa. Is she supposed to accept that he is a girl when she knows he is not? That is the lie: saying you are something you are not and can never be.

Even if no one says explicitly that a person can change sex, saying that a boy is s girl or a girl a boy is the same thing.

But in the lesson was your daughter told you could change sex? No, you would have told us if she was. You said the lesson was on respect. Older students asked her if she was gay. There's a wider issue of transgender but you are saying she's being asked to collude in a lie and the school have done no such thing. You are going on what people are saying she might be told in lessons not what actually happened. It's no wonder the head teacher is baffled.

I have to work properly now.

You do that dear.

We all know where these lessons are headed and you are being deliberately obtuse.

I have to work properly now.

Obfuscating didn't achieve the desired level of obfuscation, eh?

A recent transcript from the training that Mermaids provides for teachers:

Imherefornow Sat 22-Dec-18 wrote:
"Here are the links to the transcripts thanks to a wonderful mumsnet collaboration. Share as you will smile

docs.google.com/document/d/1NDOMlo2aEpBl2ySfKdEWCb1H94tZciKiqUffjH1ku0Y/edit?usp=sharing

docs.google.com/document/d/1aeFV0T6j4PXvm1xZBS_50oSJYV-_gO8YMoFjKjNA_9Y/edit?usp=sharing

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3454658-recording-of-mermaids-training

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3457686-Janice-Turner-article-in-the-Times-about-Mermaids

But in the lesson was your daughter told you could change sex? No, you would have told us if she was. You said the lesson was on respect. Older students asked her if she was gay. There's a wider issue of transgender but you are saying she's being asked to collude in a lie and the school have done no such thing.

There are clear established issues with the gender ideology informing training & school resouces by Mermaids, Stonewall, Allsorts, No Outsiders, BISH etc

Some of these also have Safeguarding implications.