Opting out of trans and LGB lessons

[SparklySneakers]

My daughter is objecting to her school making her do LGBT sessions this month. She does not want to go to school for that week. She doesn't see why she has to learn about it, believes you can love whoever you want to love, be whoever you want to be but that you can't change sex.
Can see object or rather me on her behalf? Or maybe a better question is how I can get her to make the most of these sessions.

This sort of shit is common in schools. It's not right but whilst the school can try to stamp it out, they never will so it's in the child's interest to be able to cope with it.

What a thoroughly delightful and constructive attitude, no wonder the mental health of our youth, especially girls is so poor.

Bullying of all kinds needs to be dealt with.

The current divisive Rainbow tactics are actively increasing homophobia in our schools. They need a rethink.

whilst the school can try to stamp it out, they never will so it's in the child's interest to be able to cope with it.

Children's boundaries matter,
You've repeatedly positioned the issue being with the child's feelings rather than problematic external issues.
You've indicated your belief that the child's feelings should simply be managed. Now she should 'just cope'?
This is a 12 year old girl who is insightful.

OP, "She doesn't see why she has to learn about it, believes you can love whoever you want to love, be whoever you want to be but that you can't change sex."

‘It’s in the child’s interest to be able to deal with it’

In my child’s case it was much more in his interest to move schools away from it.

whilst the school can try to stamp it out, they never will so it's in the child's interest to be able to cope with it.

If a black child was being called the N word everyday at school would you be insisting that the child just learns to cope with it, or would you be at school all guns blazing insisting on exclusion for the perps, going to governors etc?

If a black child was being called the N word everyday at school would you be insisting that the child just learns to cope with it, or would you be at school all guns blazing insisting on exclusion for the perps, going to governors etc?

The difference is that the OPs daughter was not called gay. She was asked if she was gay. But the school have said they will deal with it. If my child was called the N word or gay, I may or may not complain but I wouldn't be naive enough to think that they can stop it happening completely. Kids can be horrible. It's not right but it is happening and has always happened. I have one child who doesn't let things bother him and another who is very, very sensitive and I know who life is easier for. I reluctantly accept that teachers can't stop every nasty child so the next best thing is to equip my child the skills to get through until they no longer have to deal with them.

She doesn't see why she has to learn about it, believes you can love whoever you want to love, be whoever you want to be but that you can't change sex."

But the lesson was on respect. She hasn't been told you can change sex, has she?

In my child’s case it was much more in his interest to move schools away from it

This is sometimes the best thing for some children. I have a couple of friends who home ed because the one size fits all school system didn't work for their children for various reasons. Schools and children are much the same everywhere so moving schools didn't work.

You've repeatedly positioned the issue being with the child's feelings rather than problematic external issues.

If you mean the LGBT lessons, I wouldn't call them problematic. I am in favour of them. I have never come across any school that has said people can change sex, swap chromosomes or a boy liking pink must be a girl. These books and resources may exist but schools I know of are acknowledging trans people and trans issues but not saying anything about changing sex.

The issue is with the content and the age-appropriateness of lessons.

The lesson was about respect. How was the lesson not age appropriate? Let's not base it on what people are saying they think may be in the lessons.

I don't think discussing transgenderism in lessons for 12 year olds is appropriate. Being told they can change gender. Gender is a social construct rooted in sexist stereotypes and is therefore damaging. They should be looking to smash stereotypes instead of reinforcing them.
The resources used are from stonewall. That worries me considering their anti-lesbian stance of late. Stonewall are all about the G and the T these days but mainly the T.

My child is 12. She should be concentrating on academic subjects at this age and consolidating what she has learned in primary school. There is time for LGB to be covered later on. The school's ethos should include respect so that respect is woven into everything with no need for special sessions on it. I'd bet my bottom dollar there's no respect sessions regarding women's rights. Pesky girls wanting boundaries.
TVandToast you seem to have taken over this thread somewhat and seem to be laying a lot of the responsibility on my daughter to just deal with it, tough up, get used to it; and on me to make my daughter more resilient. No duty of care from the school though? No responsibility there to make sure things are age appropriate and based on fact not nonsense. Nice.

No duty of care from the school though?

I've said the school should deal with the older students. I've said they should work with your daughter. But you have to be realistic on how much power schools are given. They come under pressure to not remove children, that's why children know they can get away with bad behaviour. If it was up to me, I would get rid of them to make school a nicer place for the good kids like your daughter. That's not going to happen so I do the next best thing, help my children cope with the idiots.

What wasn't age appropriate? Discussing transgenderism? We'll never agree on that then. Being transgender is not all rooted in stereotypes, at least with the few transgender people I have come into contact with. Clearly you have an issue with schools teaching it and I imagine your daughter has tuned into this which has caused her stress. Often children's views are their parents views.

If I was concerned about the content of the lesson I would have asked them exactly what was in them. I doubt they tell children they can change sex, I notice your last post said change gender. There are transgender people, maybe trans gender children in school and children need to understand in order to be respectful of them.

As for concentrating on academic subjects, schools mainly do but they also have a wider role to play in children becoming successful adults.

My son has learnt about women's rights in both English and Personal Development. Respect is woven into everything but they also have separate talks, plays and assemblies.

As for taking over the thread, I gave an opinion and then have answered when people have disagreed. You can't just have everyone agree with you.

What wasn't age appropriate? Discussing transgenderism? We'll never agree on that then. Being transgender is not all rooted in stereotypes, at least with the few transgender people I have come into contact with. Clearly you have an issue with schools teaching it and I imagine your daughter has tuned into this which has caused her stress. Often children's views are their parents views.

Maybe your personal investment in the subject explains a lot on this thread?
You've made a lot of assumptions and demonstrated quite a bit of confirmation bias.

There are transgender people, maybe trans gender children in school and children need to understand in order to be respectful of them.

TVandToast what do you think being transgender means? You've said it's not all about stereotypes, and you're not arguing that people can change sex, so what is transgenderism exactly in your view?

She has her own mind and opinions and has done since a very young age. "Spirited" at age 18 months and has continued ever since. She's a critical thinker, member of debate club, and does not blindly accept opinion. She weighs up the opinion against facts. She doesn't need me to tell her her opinions. If she hears bullshit, she calls bullshit.

School is very strict. She was sexually harassed by an older boy last term. By the time she told me and I reported it he'd already been expelled for his behaviour. They tolerate no nonsense from students. Shame they don't extend that to gender nonsense.

what do you think being transgender means?

I'm not going to get into the whole trans debate. I'm not trans gender so it's not my story to tell, just people I've either worked with or studied with. What I will say is none of them claimed to have changed their XX for XY or vice versa. The trans women didn't start dressing in pink frills and the trans man didn't start liking football and rugby.

Maybe your personal investment in the subject explains a lot on this thread?

What personal investment, knowing a few trans people vaguely?

I want my kids to grow up accepting people for who they are. That's all these lessons are about.

Dear god. You really have no idea. Stick around the feminism board for a while and you'll soon learn exactly what the problem is here. Although if your comments are anything to go by I'm really not sure why you're on FWR.
Thank you for your opinion but I prefer facts, research, evidence, and the wide knowledge of the regulars on this board, particularly R0wantrees who astounds me with her in-depth knowledge of this subject and is always helpful. I have great respect for those who have been on this board a long time because that time equals experience and knowledge and I value that.
I've been on this board around 9 months and was never interested in feminism before. Women here have taught me so much and I'm grateful to them for making me a feminist.
A year ago I'd have blindly accepted this subject being taught in school because I didn't know of the issues surrounding it. I was ignorant. Mumsnet brought me up to speed sharpish and I'm grateful that I am now more informed to make decisions about my children and what they are exposed to.

Well that entire patronising lecture seemed to turn on whether kids of 12 understood chromosomes.

Mind blowing.

So you're happy to tell us what being transgender isn't, but you can't say what it is. Is that right, TVandToast?

The trans women didn't start dressing in pink frills and the trans man didn't start liking football and rugby.

Again, you've said what they're not, but not what they are. How does the transwoman differ from a man? And how does the transman differ from a woman?

I'm not trans gender so it's not my story to tell

And this is just a cop-out. If you're going to respect people for who they are, you need to know who they are.

She has her own mind and opinions and has done since a very young age. "Spirited" at age 18 months and has continued ever since. She's a critical thinker, member of debate club, and does not blindly accept opinion. She weighs up the opinion against facts. She doesn't need me to tell her her opinions. If she hears bullshit, she calls bullshit.

Sparkly your daughter sounds great. That seemed clear to me from your OP. Good luck with the school, hopefully they'll listen to you both.

*She's a critical thinker, member of debate club, and does not blindly accept opinion. She weighs up the opinion against facts. She doesn't need me to tell her her opinions. If she hears bullshit, she calls bullshit.

I wonder why you felt the need to consider writing difficult questions for her to ask in the lessons when she sounds capable enough to do it herself. I think you were trying to make your point through your child and in the process your child has felt really anxious.

Shame they don't extend that to gender nonsense.

Well, that says it all really. Good luck to your daughter, I hope she is ok. I really would ask yourself why your daughter has ended up ill with stress. You can't completely blame the older students as she didn't want to attend the lessons before this happened. If it was my daughter I would be listening to my daughter, both what she's saying and how she's acting.

So you're happy to tell us what being transgender isn't, but you can't say what it is. Is that right, TVandToast

No that's not right. I'm just not going to get into it so it can be me versus all of you🙄 And then you declare victory because there's more of you. I've seen in on other threads and when I did enter into discussion about a year ago under another name it ended with lots of deleted posts (not from me) and the realisation that there's just no point.

Shame they don't extend that to gender nonsense.

Well, that says it all really

TVandToast
If you haven't seen it yet, many people new to the issues have found this thread useful:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Hmmm thought your posting style was familiar.

And then you declare victory because there's more of you.

It doesn't work like that, it's not because there are more of us, it's because the alternative explanations have been poor. If you have a good argument or explanation, I'd like to know what it is.

Nobody has yet explained it to me in a way that doesn't come down to either stereotypes or a psychological condition in which someone thinks there's something wrong with their healthy body or (in the case of some men), a fetish.

If you have another explanation, it would be good if you could share it.

Smells a bit sealion-y in here

It doesn't work like that, it's not because there are more of us, it's because the alternative explanations have been poor

But that's how it seems because you will never accept anyone else's explanation because you think you are right and they think they are right. It will never be resolved.