Tavistock’s Experimentation with Puberty Blockers: Scrutinizing the Evidence

[Pimmsnlemonade]

www.transgendertrend.com/tavistock-experiment-puberty-blockers/

"To summarize, GIDS launched a study to administer experimental drugs to children suffering from gender dysphoria. Between 2010 and 2014, puberty blockers were given to 50 children. This study yielded only one published scientific article on outcomes. It showed no evidence for the effectiveness of GnRHa: there was no statistically significant difference in psychosocial functioning between the group given blockers and the group given only psychological support. In addition, there is unpublished evidence that after a year on GnRHa children reported greater self-harm, and that girls experienced more behavioural and emotional problems and expressed greater dissatisfaction with their body—so puberty blockers exacerbated gender dysphoria. Yet the study has been used to justify rolling out this drug regime to several hundred children aged under 16. Almost five years after the last patient was enrolled in the experiment, there is no evidence to substantiate Carmichael’s claim ‘that the results thus far have been positive’."

Yes you're right its.

Elsewhere it says the parents forum has "no younger age limit"

on occasion to challenge and secure better services

Quiliam... that name really rings a bell for something else. I will try and remember.
Bowlofbabelfish Didn’t she do relationship advice in magazines and on the radio?
(Outing a previous love of trashy magazines here.)
Thanks all for detective work - this is much worse than I thought.

being trans is something to be celebrated

So not a distressing mental condition which drives sufferers to self harm and suicide if they don't get appropriate treatment, then? OK.

In turn, these families and young people are educating the professionals that they are encountering.

So after a weekend of absorbing Mermaids' propaganda, they can go off and 'educate' their GP about obtaining medication to help them with their celebration of a distressing mental condition. Great.

Didn’t she do relationship advice in magazines and on the radio?

Yeah seems so. My brain is still tickling though. I’ll probably wake at 3am and remember but I’m sure it’s been mentioned here before

The Quilliam Foundation (as was) apparently deradicalised Tommy Robinson some years ago and was criticised for it. Is that what you were thinking of, Bowl?
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/12/tommy-robinson-quilliam-foundation-questions-motivation

Hmmm.. no I don’t think it is. Maybe it’s a brain fart.

Wow. What an informative and sad thread. It is horrendous what these families are going through. It is unbelievable both that treatments are continuing despite the poor outcomes as well as the complete disregard for the impact of these drugs on children. Children for fucks sake. If they weren't vulnerable before, they certainly are now. Fuck.

Gendered Intelligence have also been approached....

genderedintelligence.wordpress.com/2019/03/08/gendered-intelligence-responds-to-press-enquiry/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

The Gendered Intelligence statement names The Times as the newspaper in question.

Looks like another Gilligan special on the way.

Interestingly, the Gendered Intelligence statement was long and detailed, but didn't actually give any details about its relationship with the Tavi. Apart from saying that GI have attended GIDS family days.

GIDS run family days? News to me. And they have invited lobby groups to those family days?

Funny how Mermaids didn't mention that in their own statement. Mermaids only said that they had invited GIDS to their own residential weekends.

Are there any other NHS services that run family days for patients and their families? And ask lobby groups along?

Information events are often done collaboratively with NHS and reputable third sector e.g. Macmillan, Diabetes UK, Alzheimer's Society etc.

No article in today's Times

But there is an article about how the NHS is not prescribing Cannabis based medicines for pain relief because the quality of evidence is really poor and there's a risk of a "side effect scandal like thalidomide".

But where gender non conforming children and adults are involved, that's apparently ok.

Information events are often done collaboratively with NHS and reputable third sector e.g. Macmillan, Diabetes UK, Alzheimer's Society etc.

Would they be residential weekends? I once went to a British Thyroid Foundation one with nhs consultant speakers and some q and a but it was 2-3 hours.

Please accept my apologies if this material has been posted before on mumsnet

This is just a data dump really to help others to research this. In my experience it is always helpful to revisit primary sources as it can be easy to miss important points.

I decided to research the history of mermaids in relation to the Tavistock and Portman (currently the Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust)

The earliest archived page I could find for the Mermaids website is a March 7th 2009 archived page that includes the below text:

"A multi-disciplinary service is now provided by the Gender Identity Development Service, which is part of the Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust - this is the only gender clinic in the UK solely dedicated to helping children and adolescents up to the age of eighteen years. It has no catchment area - it will accept referrals from professionals in Health, Social Service and Education departments in all areas. They will also accept self referrals of families or adolescents over the age of 16.

A number of families attending this clinic have identified a need to form a support group, 'Mermaids', to aid other families, children and teenagers in similar situations. Having themselves gained benefit from mutual support, shared experiences, and understanding, they know that contact with others can alleviate feelings of lonliness and alienation, and can bring strength and understanding to very difficult situations. "

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20090307015630/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/gidca.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20090307015630/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/gidca.html

A whois search indicates that Mermaids current web address was registered in 2008

www.nominet.uk/whois/?query=mermaidsuk.org.uk#whois-results

A search of the archive indicates that there is an old website here

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web//www.mermaids.freeuk.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web//www.mermaids.freeuk.com/

in which the following text appears:

"Some of our children have attended the Gender Identity Development Service of the Portman Trust, two of whose clinicians are in an advisory position on our Committee."

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20021220184831/www.mermaids.freeuk.com/intro.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20021220184831/www.mermaids.freeuk.com/intro.html

Also see:

"How we can be reached

The Service accepts referrals from other professionals in Health, Social Services and Education Departments, who are encouraged to discuss the referral with the family and seek their agreement. The Service also accepts self referrals of families or adolescents beyond the age of 16. There is no catchment area.

Written referrals should be addressed to:

Dr. Domenico Di Ceglie,
Consultant Child and Adolsecent Psychiatrist,
Gender Identity Development Service,
Portman Clinic,
8 Fitzjohns Avenue,
London.
NW3 5NA
Tel. 0207 794 8262
Click here to visit the Portman and Tavistock NHS Trust

The Gender Identity Development Service is associated with the Department of Paediatric Endocrinology at St. George's Hospital, London."

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20021220190018/www.mermaids.freeuk.com/portman.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20021220190018/www.mermaids.freeuk.com/portman.html

also see

"When Dr Di Ceglie became consultant in child psychiatry in Croydon he started a small workshop there for children with gender identity disorders and soon became convinced of the need for such a service. In 1989 the Gender Identity Development Clinic opened at St George’s Hospital, which in 1992 organised the first international conference on the subject. In 1996 the clinic transferred to the Tavistock and Portman Trust where it remains today, based at the Portman Clinic in London."

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20090926091059/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/dicegli.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20090926091059/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/dicegli.html

This article from another thread just started is excellent:

gdworkinggroup.org/2018/10/24/the-gender-identity-phantom/

Might be the way I read it and there's no research on it (of course!) but seems to be indicating a the possibility of a placebo effect in confirming that yes you're in the wrong body when starting the blockers that completely convinces the child to continue? Aside the fact it then halts the body following puberty normally and what those changes could bring (most desist).

Also, if 100% go onto transition, it's not irreversible at all. Despite the fact they do irreversible damage to the brain and body.

This is interesting

Signs of GID
www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/signs.html

This list reminds me of the insane "signs of satanic ritual abuse" promoted by quacks

e.g.

The other thing about these signs of GID is that they are possible indications of autism spectrum disorders

sorry woking link to "signs"

should be this archived link

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20090924005405/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/signs.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20090924005405/www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/signs.html

"Some signs that a young person may show (even if they are not obviously exhibiting cross-gendered behaviour):

( Cartoon )

Playing with (e.g.) boys toys but modifying them to soften - e.g. a fort becomes a theatre, or soldiers have skirts added to make them female (for biological males, with similar but reversed for girls)
If playing with girls toys is discouraged, tendency to draw or doodle feminine things or "pretty ladies" which are identified with (for biological males with similar but reversed for girls)
Lack of concentration (being "away with the fairies" and constantly appearing to daydream) due to the fact that their problem is always on their mind. We know of several who for a while were thought to be deaf!)
Poor educational performance, below what one might expect of them.
Or, conversely, total immersion in schoolwork with little interest in anything else.
Obsessive with Hobbies/pastimes - when doing things they really enjoy they can sometimes over-immerse themselves in them as displacement activities (saves them from having to think of their problems).
A reluctance to use the school toilets, perhaps rushing home at lunchtimes.
A reluctance to do games appropriate to the birth gender, including a reluctance to use the showers/changing rooms/swimming pool. Frequent loss of PE/games kit.
Unexplained illnesses, such as headaches, joint aches, nausea, dizziness. If the child is kept at home, these may be seen to get better as the day wears on, especially as the end of the school day approaches! These illnesses may be real, even though the cause is psychosomatic.
Truanting, even when well.
Depression, sleeping late during the day and unable to get off to sleep at night, constant cravings for Carbohydrate-loaded foods (Starch, Sugar and Cellulose).
Stress-related illnesses (e.g. irritable bowel syndrome, migraines).
Self-harm (e.g. arm cutting or scratching), suicide attempts.
Dependency on drugs/alcohol.
A tendency to avoid meeting your eyes with theirs.
Poor self-image.
Timidity or agression.
"Off the rails" type behaviour.
Possibly Dyslexic.
Often on the receiving end of bullying, sometimes severe.
Often thought of (mistakenly) as being 'gay' - this in itself can be hurtful as it is inaccurate.
Few friends, and a lack of a normal social lifestyle for a teenager.
Spending long periods alone - e.g. in the bedroom, or going for long aimless walks alone.
Secretiveness - with an inability to open up, especially about personal things, feelings, things to do with sex, extreme shyness about gender or sex.
More time spent with adult helpers at school (e.g. dinner ladies) than with their peers.
Indentification with other 'outsider' groups (e.g. children of a different race, those with learning difficulties).
Appearing more friendly with the 'opposite sex' as their main group (i.e. boys who are more friendly with girls, and vice versa)."

I haven't had a chance to read this thread properly yet but just looking at that last post most of the so called signs of gender dysphoria are classic signs of being on the autistic spectrum.

Mermaids and GI are all being so slippery.

Their ideology does push for puberty blockers as early as possible. There is no difference between Gender Non-Conforming youth and those with Gender Dysphoria - both can have extreme levels of distress. By pushing for puberty blockers to buy time to sort the two out, they are ‘sacrificing’ the Gender Non-Conforming children. They are advocating to make a drug, that is actually know to cause depression and so complicate where the distress is coming from, part of the treatment pathway.

The Mermaids statement is all about denying involvement in individual cases. They’re deliberately missing the bigger picture that their lobbying for the earlier medical intervention is harming the majority of patients. I’m sure they’ve even admitted it before, that it’s better to put all on blockers to save the 5% from potential suicide.

a poem by a child involved with Mermaids

"Mirrors

By Aoife

Age 16
Each time I look into a mirror,
I see a face look back at me.
Sometimes it's the face of a girl,
And sometimes it's a boy.
Each face shows its sadness,
Each one shows its pain.
Both of them have their sorrow,
But one has room for Joy.
I know some day that I must choose a face,
And live with it forever more.
But which one can joy live in?
Which one can I scorn?."

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20001217175800/www.mermaids.freeuk.com/voice.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20001217175800/www.mermaids.freeuk.com/voice.html

"I know some day that I must choose a face,
And live with it forever more."

ORLY?

heartbreaking

jesus that list

leaving aside the many points that could indicate ASD, some of them totally tell you who mermaids are

Appearing more friendly with the 'opposite sex' as their main group (i.e. boys who are more friendly with girls, and vice versa)."

I am proud of my lovely DS's friendships with girls, that he sees them and values them as fellow humans. why would I medicate that away?

Often thought of (mistakenly) as being 'gay'

OR

Often thought of (accurately) as being gay but suffers from internalised homophobia and / or worries about the reaction of their homophobic parents

Playing with (e.g.) boys toys but modifying them to soften - e.g. a fort becomes a theatre, or soldiers have skirts added to make them female

jesus. inevitable from the peddlars of GI Joe vs Barbie. but fucking hell. why would you sterilise a child because they don't play with approved toys?

You couldn't make this up

"Transvestite (TV)

Also known as trannies. A transvestite is a person who cross-dresses but has no desire to change their physical sex. They may sometimes fantasise about being a member of the opposite sex but which to remain their birth sex. Rarely a transvestite transitions to live as a member of the opposite biological sex but have no desire to become a member of that sex. Some transvestites are fetishistic in nature in that they only like to wear certain items belonging to the opposite sex such as underwear or shoes. Others like to wear all items belonging to the opposite sex. Transvestism is seen as more common amongst men but women wear trousers so often it is hard to tell if a woman is in fact a transvestite. "

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20000617090449/www.mermaids.freeuk.com/terms.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20000617090449/www.mermaids.freeuk.com/terms.html

I haven't had a chance to read this thread properly yet but just looking at that last post most of the so called signs of gender dysphoria are classic signs of being on the autistic spectrum.

Absolutely.

Often thought of (mistakenly) as being 'gay' - this in itself can be hurtful as it is inaccurate

!?!