Tavistock’s Experimentation with Puberty Blockers: Scrutinizing the Evidence

[Pimmsnlemonade]

www.transgendertrend.com/tavistock-experiment-puberty-blockers/

"To summarize, GIDS launched a study to administer experimental drugs to children suffering from gender dysphoria. Between 2010 and 2014, puberty blockers were given to 50 children. This study yielded only one published scientific article on outcomes. It showed no evidence for the effectiveness of GnRHa: there was no statistically significant difference in psychosocial functioning between the group given blockers and the group given only psychological support. In addition, there is unpublished evidence that after a year on GnRHa children reported greater self-harm, and that girls experienced more behavioural and emotional problems and expressed greater dissatisfaction with their body—so puberty blockers exacerbated gender dysphoria. Yet the study has been used to justify rolling out this drug regime to several hundred children aged under 16. Almost five years after the last patient was enrolled in the experiment, there is no evidence to substantiate Carmichael’s claim ‘that the results thus far have been positive’."

I think that's why we have to be able to notice and discuss this openly and rationally Hoodathunkt. There seems to be so much swinging back and forth between who is the discredited side and who is credible that my main concern is that this muddying is deliberate and only serves the abusers.

but obviously the criticisms made here of the Tavi re their GID work has a sound and rational basis which stands up to scrutiny. And I don't doubt the harmful views some of their people have.

I can't explain myself well enough today.

@plattercake

I agree that we need to examine evidence very carefully and be extremely careful about who we consider to be allies. I also agree that it can be confusing and overwhelming

Hoskins calling himself Rachel really shocked me when I first saw it and it is one of the reasons why I have not contacted him personally. Not because I think there is a risk he is a predator or bad person, I believe he is an important authority on religious abuses.

He has very significant experiences of combatting child abuse and he is one of the good guys IMO.

Some of his views on gender I agree with, some I disagree with.

I would strongly suggest that you maybe check out some old documentaries about SRA and have a think about what might be going on

For example

As I have said before, my argument is not with vulnerable people who are harmed by quacks, it is with the quacks and abusers themselves

I made a mistake in an earlier post

Vera Diamond was closely involved with therapists working at the Tavi, namely Valerie Sinason and Rob Hale. Diamond was involved in the appalling abuse of Carol Felstead.

Thank you Hooda. Just to say I don't check the email that this MN account goes to so don;t receive any @s, but would be very happy to receive any PMs you might want to send with links etc. I imagine we would have a very interesting talk about this in RL Getting all the nuance and complexity onto this format is difficult.

The quacks yes, absolutely against them. Had experience myself in various ways directly and indirectly, and also in things being dismissed, directly and indirectly. Some psych people, too many, are incredibly concerning and damaging.

V complex.

Interesting statement (blog post?) by mermaids:

www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/mermaids-media-statement-8th-march-2019.html

This is key for me:

The Tavistock clinic delivers general information talks at Mermaids residential weekends for families to inform about the service and the pathways, and hold regular meetings with senior management of both organisations to continue to maintain a respectful relationship.

I agree *NeurotrashWarrior" also that's a bit at odds with

This does not, however, ever involve conversations around individual medical interventions for service users.

Hard to imagine a weekend long event talking about service and pathways that does not involve conversations around individual medical interventions

Weekend residential courses for families.

Interesting statement (blog post?) by mermaids

I'm glad to see a journo asking the questions, and I'm sure they will have the evidence to back up the fact that Mermaids is desperately lying.

Mermaids aren’t very smart are they?

Pro tip: when a journalist asks you for a statement about you doing A Thing they aren’t asking you for your opinion about The Thing, they’re telling you they have evidence of you doing The Thing and want to get you to deny it, so they can write an article juxtaposing their evidence of you doing The Thing with your frantic denials.

I look forward to the article

This does not, however, ever involve conversations around individual medical interventions for service users.

I’ll just leave this nice tweet here.

Mermaids aren’t very smart are they?

I don't think it's just that. They are really in the shit now and nothing they can say is going to get them out of it. The best they can hope for is to try and drum up enough righteous indignation amongst their supporters so they will twit all over the place that Mermaids is being oppressed.

Ha! Just checked Mermaids Twitter and the supporters are indeed twitting righteously

"Biased journalism"
"Transphobic practitioners" in the NHS
"Generalised accusations"
"Smear article"...

even if we give them hormomes

Who is ‘we’ Susie? Gosh.

Mermaids have gone full on totalitarian dictator with tanks approaching haven't they?

There are no tanks in Baghdad.

Wow the parent's forum is like Fort Knox.

www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/parents-support-forum.html

Wow the parent's forum is like Fort Knox

Can't have cult members being exposed to facts.

So these residential courses are arranged in secret for whole families and Tavistock staff.

Has anyone else got safeguarding in neon lights flashing in front of their eyes accompanied by various klaxons and alarms?

Can’t wait for the article. Anyone know what time it’s expected?

Wow indeed.

Interesting blocking out of sunlight there Mermaids...

Can’t wait for the article.

Me neither.

It does say the residential is for over 16's with family members.

Just leaving this quote here:

Weekends run from Friday early evening to Sunday lunchtime/afternoon, and comprise of a meet and greet on Friday, then Saturday we deliver workshops and speakers, with plenty of opportunities to ask questions and socialise. A communal evening meal follows, and then Sunday is for families and teens to solidify friendships and swap details.

www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/transgender-meetups.html

It does say the residential is for over 16's with family members

I read it as families (ie with children) + solo 16+?

Our speakers are not only there to show that being trans is something to be celebrated, but to empower and enable families and young people to access the best care possible in all aspects, and on occasion to challenge and secure better services. In turn, these families and young people are educating the professionals that they are encountering.

Families have reported that as well as the educational aspects of the weekends, the ability to meet others in a supportive environment without the need to explain or justify themselves or their children is invaluable.