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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Julia Long asking Munro Bergdorf about child exploitation

398 replies

happydappy2 · 19/02/2019 13:27

Julia Long was asked to leave the venue, after asking MB if it was normal that an 11yr old child dancing in front of adults, has money thrown at them by grown men. This was at Transmission & was deemed an offensive question....video footage on twitter of the incident.....worth a watch, sorry I can’t link to it but hope someone else can.

[Edited by MNHQ to add video link]

OP posts:
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13
RiverTam · 20/02/2019 08:32

wow, a few of my posts have been deleted. Guess Munroe doesn't like the mirror that's being held up to Munroe's behaviour. Appreciating the truth has never been a TRA's strong point, has it?

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 20/02/2019 08:38

How old are they? I heard 50ish.

andyoldlabour · 20/02/2019 08:42

It looks as though my only comment on this thread has been deleted, simply for pointing out how brave Julia was in comparison to the reprehensible behaviour of the people in the room.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 20/02/2019 09:05

Was it overnight? They get busy at night.

RiverTam · 20/02/2019 09:09

yes, my comments were there yesterday evening.

@MNHQ what's going on with this thread?

TurboTeddy · 20/02/2019 09:11

Julia was exceptionally brave. I was quite confused by accusations that her questions made people feel "unsafe", Julia and companions were clearly outnumbered. What does unsafe actually mean in this context? Fear of actual (or literal) violence or simply exposure to different opinions. Her tone was calm and respectful so could hardly be described as threatening. I'm hopeful I'm not going mad but my confidence in that ebbs away by the day.

DoctoressPlague · 20/02/2019 09:13

So what's next? Will all Martina Navratilova threads be deleted because they contain links to Times and other news sites where one might find hurtful comments?

BertrandRussell · 20/02/2019 09:18

Many of us-and many public figures- were a bit swayed by the PIE-I am old enough to remember that time. The societal earthquake caused by the women’s rights and gay rights movements made many of us think “Well, hang on, might we have been wrong about this too?” Particularly when charismatic figures told us we were. I think that is happening again.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 20/02/2019 09:28

What will happen with twitter

Im serious (for once)

Nothing to stop someone linking to a twitter statement

Then the link being deleted because AFTER the link was posted on her someone said something 'mean' OR the original twitterer saying something 'mean' to get it deleted

So if i post a link at 9am...and then at 11pm someone says something 'mean' will my link be deleted

Thats not fair...ive been very subtle so far but some people may have gleaned that i think this latest rule is really really really...not on

But this is honestly the road we are going down now?

I'll report my post for hopefully clarification

OrchidInTheSun · 20/02/2019 09:28

Have people reported their posts asking for the new comment free links be reinstated at the start of this thread? Otherwise this doesn't make much sense.

Desmond is also being promoted on the BBC. Learned nothing after Savill

GerryblewuptheER · 20/02/2019 09:30
Hmm

Well this thread didn't go weird did it....

Datun · 20/02/2019 09:31

I agree BertrandRussell

I remember quite a few sympathetic articles to paedophiles who promised that they didn't practice, and please have sympathy for them. And people did.

The BBC are endorsing Desmond is amazing. They have goggles on. Goggles provided by the erosion of boundaries that make them think they're being cool, edgy and progressive.

RuPaul's drag race makes drag look harmless and fun. Drag queens going into kindergarten for instance.

But there is a line that gets crossed.

Those drag queens' remit was to address hate speech - in kindergarten children. And they have names like poppin' cherry.

Gay clubs where the customers say they congregate there for sex, allowing children to perform. A boundary is swiftly crossed.

There is no doubt it is deliberate. And there is equally little doubt that many people simply don't see it.

Until they do. And then they realised they kind of did see it all along.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 20/02/2019 09:33

I honestly dont understand it, it makes no sense whatsoever as a rule, its impossible for us to post any links in good faith

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 20/02/2019 09:37

I love Nago from good morning bbc

But they are talking about sexual assaults in school and the woman said about boys being abusive

And then Naga said we shouldnt talk just about boys as girls are abusive as well

Sad

Do you think she was being devils advocate so the interviewee could talk about the prevalence?

Sorry for derail

R0wantrees · 20/02/2019 09:38

Dr Julia Long raised serious questions relating to the Safeguarding of children and the risks of child sex expolitation/abuse.

See also Object! article by HANNAH HARRISON identifies very serious concerns about the risks to children and young people by failures in safeguarding frameworks within the trans / Queer community.

www.objectnow.org/news/2019/1/15/trans-kids-paedophilia-in-drag?

Munroe Bergdorf has demonstrated that they do not understand Safeguarding or parenting which centres the needs of the child.

An adult may feel offended when others who do understand safeguarding risks address such a failure but this should never take priority over the concerns for children & vulnerable adults' safety.

(the adult's sex and gender identity is irrelevent)

Datun · 20/02/2019 09:40

People genuinely think it's unfair to target boys, I believe Rufus.

Whilst most people understand on a natural level that boys pose more of a risk than girls, I don't think they quite get how definite a statistic that is.

I was certainly shocked when I realised it was 98% to 2%.

The other thing I have noticed that if you say that, although people are shocked, they also get instantly defensive.

It's a whole extra layer of custard you have to wade through in order to get back to the original point in question.

R0wantrees · 20/02/2019 09:48

Munroe Bergdorf has considerable media and political influence both in UK .

Like Fox & Owl, they are promoted as 'role models' for vulnerable children questioning their gender identity.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3509672-Trans-Teen-Survival-Guide-by-Fox-and-Owl

As identified in the recent GIDS report, trans rights activists are affecting Safeguarding frameworks intended to protect children and young people.

Many prominant trans rights advocates including Aimee Chellenor, Stephen Whittle, Jane Fae Suzie Green etc have demonstrated repeatedly that they do not understand Safeguarding.

Parents and adults who do understand Safeguarding and the duty of care required towards children and vulnerable adults will of course interrogate and identify the Safeguarding concerns. They are required to do this.

Sunday Times, 'Staff at trans clinic fear damage to children as activists pile on pressure'
(extract)
"The report was compiled late last year by David Bell, then staff governor, whose role was to present staff concerns. It says some children “take up a trans identity as a solution” to “multiple problems such as historic child abuse in the family, bereavement . . . homophobia and a very significant incidence of autism spectrum disorder” after being “coached” online and by trans activist groups.

The true histories of “highly disturbed or complex” child patients were not properly explored by Gids clinicians struggling with “huge and unmanageable caseloads” and afraid of being accused of transphobia if they questioned the “rehearsed” surface presentation. The report says the concerns voiced by staff are shared by Sonia Appleby, who is in charge of safeguarding at the trust.

Some youngsters were referred for puberty-blocking hormones — which are usually followed at 16 by cross-sex hormones causing irreversible change and lower fertility — after just one session, the report says. The trust denied this.

Examples of cases in the report include a girl from a family with a history of abuse of females. The mother’s anxiety about having a daughter was transmitted to her child, who resolved to change gender. Another girl felt “deeply guilty” after her brother died tragically, so she decided to give her parents “their son back” by changing gender. Some openly homophobic parents sought transition for their children because they were gay.

In other cases, uncomfortable feelings that are normal for adolescents are being “relabelled as to do with wishing to change gender, a position . . . which the service is unable to challenge” Gids has “close relationships with organisations that are identified as part of the pro-trans lobby such as Gendered Intelligence and Mermaids, and [went] to some lengths to placate them,” the report says." (continues)
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/staff-at-trans-clinic-fear-damage-to-children-as-activists-pile-on-pressure-c5k655nq9?shareToken=14ca44214d620680c9d1898b96492582

[[www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3509817-Times-16-2-1-9-Staff-at-trans-clinic-fear-damage-to-children]

I have linked to an important Sunday Times article, am I required to check the comments under the line to ensure that these all comply with current interpretation of MN rules?

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 20/02/2019 09:52

Thanks datun

Just a bit disappointing, she didnt carry on with it and the interviewee did clarify that it was overwhelmingly boys. So maybe it was a question she was 'made' to ask

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 20/02/2019 09:53

Naga!!

Where the fuck did nago come from??!!

R0wantrees · 20/02/2019 09:53

Whilst most people understand on a natural level that boys pose more of a risk than girls, I don't think they quite get how definite a statistic that is.

I was certainly shocked when I realised it was 98% to 2%.

Naming male-pattern sexual abuse, control and violence is a key factor in challenging it.

Anything which prevents the naming of the source of risk is an obstacle to Safeguarding those vulnerable to the abuse.

Datun · 20/02/2019 10:35

Naming male-pattern sexual abuse, control and violence is a key factor in challenging it.

Anything which prevents the naming of the source of risk is an obstacle to Safeguarding those vulnerable to the abuse.

Yes ro. And it's good to have these issues and arguments straight in one's head. When you're not informed, like most people, it's harder to counter, even though you know you're right. It's finding the words.

MichaelMumsnet · 20/02/2019 14:19

Hi all,
Just to clarify - the link was to a video on a Facebook page, and the title/introduction clearly broke our guidelines. Another version has since been posted in the thread here.

We're trying to keep things within the bounds of civil debate. As a general guide, we'll delete if we think the system is being gamed in order to post something you couldn't write directly on the boards, but if comments are rendering an otherwise inoffensive link unpostable, we'll find a sensible way round it.

RiverTam · 20/02/2019 14:27

a trigger warning would be a sensible way around it, @MichaelMumsnet. Then anyone who is offended by truth misgendering doesn't have to click on it.

We are talking about the normalisation of child sex abuse. Do you really want MN to appear to be against this discussion happening?

LangCleg · 20/02/2019 14:47

Michael. The system is being gamed. Against your users. See video in side bar.

Whatisthisfuckery · 20/02/2019 15:02

Why hasn’t the comment free YouTube video linked to at the bottom of page 5 been added to the OP yet? Almost 24 hours have passed, HQ have decided to expand the guidelines without warning, an alternative source has been provided but HQ have as yet not updated the OP. Other posts have been deleted by mods in the interim, so why have @MNHQ not updated the OP with the offence free link provided?

None of this looks at all dodgy, none of it.

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