Julia Long asking Munro Bergdorf about child exploitation

[happydappy2]

Julia Long was asked to leave the venue, after asking MB if it was normal that an 11yr old child dancing in front of adults, has money thrown at them by grown men. This was at Transmission & was deemed an offensive question....video footage on twitter of the incident.....worth a watch, sorry I can’t link to it but hope someone else can.

[Edited by MNHQ to add video link]

How that translates to Desmond performing a drag act in a night club in front of grown men, and being thrown money - is completely beyond me. This is child exploitation.

It is. You don't have to be wanking over it. Endorsing it is the exploitation, too.

sacred caste.

Lang you said something yesterday which was so chilling I almost can't get it out of my head.

And that was that people, mostly women, are being backed into a situation where they are unable to address child sexual exploitation.

That by even raising questions, they are considered wrong.

And this is why things like misgendering, deadnaming, showing photographs, IS so important. It removes the veil of pretence and obfuscation.

A whole manner of perverts and kinksters are hanging on the coat tails of LGB - (and feminism, gallingly enough).

The TRAs seem to all trot out the line that 'sex work is work' - I think all of the TRAs without exception are pro-prostitution aren't they? Glad to be corrected otherwise.

Once you have crossed the line perpetrating sexual abuse (but reducing the associated risks to yourself by financially compensating your victim), or defending and justifying the people who do, then there is no rowing back to appealing to human decency is there?

Actual feminists who fight against this are called both 'TERFs' and 'SWERFs'.

People who cross the line from human decency into accepting prostitution will accept a whole manner of other things in the name of 'whatever floats your boat', 'should be free to do what you want/express what you like', 'consent [minus context]', 'progressive', 'in private', 'no one else's business', 'they both get something out of it', and so on.

Apparently in Thailand there are sex tourists with their own bucket list kind of 'must see/do' events who go to certain places on the map/circuit have particular sexual experiences and some of those are to abuse children as a kind of kink you 'have to try' (it's in the book The Johns) - even if they are not specifically there to abuse kids. It's like a slippery slope of what you'll accept rather than instinctively reject, once they cross that line.

I bet you the majority of audience members at Desmond's gigs are also pro-prostitution. I bet none of the adults around him appreciate his actual childlike naivety and innocence and total lack of awareness that the driver behind the creation of the venues he attends and the behaviours he apes is the very strong adult male urge to fuck and penetrate and be stoked up into fucking and penetrating.

Brilliant post Knicknackpaddyflak. All of those point are relevant here.

Particularly, Professionals becoming distracted and preoccupied with meeting the needs and feelings and best interests of the adults, who are often vulnerable and very good at getting their needs met, at the expense of time, attention and focus on the child in the situation.

I'm back tracking on thinking that new Children’s book about a boy joining the carnival as a mermaid (drag) is 'ok.' I had reservations but felt it still celebrated the fact that he was a boy but I'm increasingly concerned about the general sexualisation of children, both sexes. Except there's a very big stage for men in drag, and so young boys.

We wouldn't be as keen if a young girl was dressing like this. US baby beauty pageants?

The child who was murdered.

This is from the briefest of Googles on child beauty pageants:

Super Sexualization
Numerous critics of child pageants cite the hypersexualization of the contestants as a reason to avoid these competitions. When little girls are made up, dressed and styled to look like miniature hookers and taught dance moves that would make a stripper blush, it’s apparent that something’s gone awry. Provocative clothing, dirty dance moves and makeup artistry that turns the face of a seven-year-old into that of a 17-year-old are commonplace in the pageant world and soon become the norm instead of the exception.

*Predator Potential
While it might appear that the audience at child pageants is comprised of family and friends of the children who compete, there’s no guarantee that strangers with nefarious intentions haven’t infiltrated the crowd. Whether pedophiles attend the pageants or simply collect the adult-looking photos that many pageant moms love to post online, the mini contestants may easily be exposed to those with a sick interest in them. There’s really no way to tell whether the friendly man taking hours of video footage in the corner is an uncle, grandfather or pedophile.
Instead of thrusting your child forward into the limelight that may cause the destruction of her confidence and send her the message that her only worth lies in how she looks, allow your child to be a child. Surround her with trusted family and friends, encourage her to participate in activities that promote her intellectual and physical abilities and, most of all, keep her away from the sordid world of child pageants.

Toddlers and Tiaras: Televised Abuse and Unethical Parenting*

childdevelopmentinfo.com/child-health-news/4-reasons-to-keep-your-daughter-out-of-childrens-beauty-pageants/

Knicknackpaddyflak

I am like this at your post. It is all just so familiar, it's shocking.

I really really hope that Munroe Bergdorf is having a period of reflection right now.

And that MNHQ thinks about who they are going to put first on a parenting site.

Nothing positive comes from a google of child beauty pageants. All the articles are very negative.

How is it different to 'drag?'

This is such a bloody good post lang

How did the scandal of TV entertainers grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

How did the scandal of Catholic priests grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

How did the scandal of on-street gangs grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

Because if you create a sacred caste of any group and silence anyone asking questions about individuals on behalf of the sacred caste, abusers will see, infiltrate, and groom and exploit children. That''s how.

The term sacred caste is so spot on.

That whole BS about these special people need 'safe spaces' where they wont be questioned. In a secular world how else do you enforce the deference towards an individual that religious people observe towards a priest?

I really really hope that Munroe Bergdorf is having a period of reflection right now.

Bergdorf is not capable of reflecting. To do so takes maturity and a willingness to admit to mistakes.

special people need 'safe spaces' where they wont be questioned.

Only people who cannot bear to have their opinions challenged need safe spaces.

While it might appear that the audience at child pageants is comprised of family and friends of the children who compete, there’s no guarantee that strangers with nefarious intentions haven’t infiltrated the crowd.

When I was growing up there was a local dance school that would put on an annual show. Their style was very much Hollywood/Vegas glamour and the costumes that the pubescent and pre-pubescent girls were wearing were reminiscent of Showgirls. High cut on the leg and low cut at the cleavage (of which many were to young to actually have), feathers, sequins etc.

Anyway, I friend of mine was in one of these shows, so me and another friend went to watch her. We spent a very uncomfortable couple of hours sat next to a couple of old blokes, who clearly weren’t parents, but were there with binoculars and note pads and were taking notes about which girls they could spot some pubes on, who had a decent cleavege etc. When they spotted me and my friend, they were extremely letcherous and one of them groomed my friends bum.

These men were there for the express intention of gathering wank fodder and were happy to take the opportunity to abuse teenage girls when the opportunity arose. If anybody thinks the same kind of men would not attend a Gay club where a young boy was being exploited in such away, they are woefully naive.

you said something yesterday which was so chilling I almost can't get it out of my head

There's no almost in my head, Datun. It's honestly keeping me up at night. It's just tangential to me that the current group above criticism is extremist transactivism. I couldn't give a shit which group is ignoring the safeguarding of children - TV entertainers, Catholic priests, transactivists - it's all the same to me.

I will not be told I cannot point out safeguarding failures when I see them.

Regardless of what idiots are saying BTL on Facebook or the Fail.

Groped not groomed.

The term sacred caste is so spot on.

In the interests of not claiming credit for things I didn't come up with (!) sacred caste was coined by a friend of mine (gay man). It is spot on, isn't it?

In the interests of not claiming credit for things I didn't come up with

Well you created the perfect setting to place this diamond!

Safeguarding 101: concerns about child safety must always come above the feelings of adults.

This ^^

There are always boundaries put up against those raising concerns about abuse.

Some are deliberate and calculated.

Most come from people/organisations who are in denial, acting defensively, have blindspots and/or are unaware of the powerful confirmation bias they hold.

Many people/organisations by prioritising their own needs risk inadvertently colluding with those who are deliberately attempting to silence victims/whistleblowers.

As Lang has highlighted, the circumstances over time may change but the patterns are constant.

Safeguarding and Child Protection requires that potential source/s of risk children and vulnerable adults be named and identified.

No, you are ferocious LangCleg. And your calm, shocking detailing of safeguarding failures is incredibly informative.

You've taught me a lot. It's so important to have the words to describe what you know to be correct.

And people who are living this in their real lives are invaluable.

When someone is questioning the very nature of reality, one finds oneself floundering over articulating something that one has never had to articulate before.

I found myself questioning the meaning of the word privacy, for instance. Purely because someone was questioning why I wanted to be private.

It's like having to reinvent the wheel, constantly. So people who were there when the wheel was invented, or are at least familiar with the process, are vital.

Apologies if this was already linked up thread; I'm rushing about.

This documentary was illuminating and disturbing re Shirley Temple/ 'baby burlesque' and peadophiles.

There's no almost in my head, Datun. It's honestly keeping me up at night. It's just tangential to me that the current group above criticism is extremist transactivism. I couldn't give a shit which group is ignoring the safeguarding of children - TV entertainers, Catholic priests, transactivists - it's all the same to me.

I will not be told I cannot point out safeguarding failures when I see them.

This in incumbant on us all ^^

"The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse was set up because of serious concerns that some organisations had failed and were continuing to fail to protect children from sexual abuse.

Our remit is huge, but as a statutory inquiry we have unique authority to address issues that have persisted despite previous inquiries and attempts at reform."

2019 The Truth Project has been launched as part of the IICA:
www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=30&v=D7MhdokMANo

www.iicsa.org.uk/

I have an 11yr old who likes to dress up and perform. She does so in age-appropriate dance groups and performs on stage in shows. With her friends. Her dance groups are run by CRB checked professionals. THIS is safeguarding. Would I - should I - allow her to perform at 4am in a strip club? Of course not

Indeed. Its just ridiculous that anyone pretends they see this as fine.

And I am genuinely disappointed in HQ over this. I usually understand moderating decisions, even if I disagree with them. But this one has me baffled, in a thread about child sexual exploitation (child abuse) no less. Adults feelings, and the reports of people who hate women and don't care about the wellbeing of kids...are more important than getting sunlight on this issue to fucking END IT.

Object! article by Hannah Harrison identifing serious Safeguarding and Child Protection concerns:
Men's Sexual Rights Dressed Up as 'Children's Rights'
(extract)
"When adult males engage in ‘drag’, this is to the sexual excitement of both performer and male audience. However, when children are dressed up in this manner and paraded on stage, it is only the male audience who are ‘entertained’. It is irrelevant whether or not the child being abused feels as though he is having fun or enjoying himself. It is common for victims of abuse not to recognise themselves as having been abused. The idea that a child’s perception of abuse in any way vindicates it, is reminiscent of the defense that Peter Tatchell wrote of paedophila in a letter to the Guardian in 1997, where he suggested that a 9 year old child is capable of making a “conscious choice” to have sex with an adult - and that if a child receives “great joy” from rape, Tatchell apparently considers it harmless.

In December 2018, Desmond from the aforementioned article on ‘drag’ kids, now aged 11, danced on stage at a gay bar “in a sexual manner” and collected dollar bills from men in the audience (Prestigiacomo, 2018), as if he were performing in a strip club. One man left a disgusted review of the event, stating, “I left after seeing a child dance on stage for money at nighttime. This was on Saturday night and I have been feeling disturbed ever since.”

The other boy, Nemis, has also been enduring escalating levels of abuse. This week, a photo of him posing with a naked adult man circulated on Twitter, causing uproar. The man is apparently the winner of RuPaul’s Drag Race. He is almost naked, except for a tiny patch of fabric covering his genitals. He is also teetering on extremely high heels, dangling a hand bag, wearing heavy make-up and leaning in towards the child. The young boy is wearing a black dress, his eyes and mouth wide open, and his hand touching the man’s upper arm. (continues)

...After all, nudity is just ‘freedom of expression’ and Peter Tatchell asserts that 9 year olds can consent to sex with adults. Are children being ‘groomed’ to become ‘drag kids’ for men’s entertainment? Is it ‘transphobic’ to question the abuse of a child? Or ‘pedophobic’? Either way, the response from those who defend the exploitation of ‘drag’ or ‘trans’ children is likely to be the same - no debate. (continues)

The 'trans rights' movement reframes the removal of children's safeguarding as granting children 'freedom of expression'. This is similar to paedophiles advocating for the 'sexual rights of children'. In both cases, the proponents of these movements are actually interested in promoting men's 'sexual rights'. (continues)

www.objectnow.org/news/2019/1/15/trans-kids-paedophilia-in-drag?

🏆 R0

"How did the scandal of Catholic priests grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?".

It isn't just limited to the Catholic Church, because in 2016 the Church of England was investigating 3,300 complaints of sexual abuse.
It is rife amongst all the Christian churches.

religionmediacentre.org.uk/factsheets/sex-abuse-in-christian-churches-in-the-uk/