Martina speaks out!

[PimmsnLemonade]

I'm so pleased to see this. I've been a big fan of Martina since I was a kid and this just makes her go up even higher in my estimation:

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/martina-navratilova-blasts-cheating-transgender-women-in-sport-8fmjbnh99

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-rules-on-trans-athletes-reward-cheats-and-punish-the-innocent-klsrq6h3

Scipio, most running events are mixed sex, but as Blah says, in terms of the winners that is split by sex, as it should be. It is still interesting to see where she comes against the other people in her training group though.

The squash ladder at the local sports centre is mixed sex, and there is no problem with that. In terms of 'prestige' (which isn't much for a local squash ladder!) everyone knows who the top man and woman is.

My point was that there is absolutely no problem from having mixed sex sports where it is appropriate. But awards and finishing positions in races etc should normally be split by sex otherwise men would generally win everything. (Other than sports such as equestrian where there isn't a male advantage).

And Andy, I'm assuming you mean 5 miles not 10 miles

And Andy, I'm assuming you mean 5 miles not 10 miles

Cycling, not running - average ~30mph sounds ok?

As a junior, Nicole Cooke was famously barred from her national championships (Welsh, not UK{?}) because she was too young for the women's race and ineligible for the boys race, there being no girls race.

Ah yes, cycling would be about right!

Thanks whats, that’s what I meant but expressed myself badly. I agree with you about mixing sexes in appropriate sports (non contact etc) and preserving separate records divided into male and female for the titles.

ErrolTheDragon

Yes, cycling time trials on the road. My best running time for 10 miles was just under 59 minutes.

Martina Navratilova
Martina Navratilova
@Martina
Replying to
@CNN
Hey
@CNN
and
@guardian

• this transgender athletes competing controversy is not about me and it is not about whether I was criticized or not- you ought to talk about the actual issues I raised instead- your reporting is not fake news, but it surely misses the point!

Go Martina!
We all love you.

Watching TRAs fall over themselves to explain why male people are actually at a disadvantage to female people, and such is highly amusing.

On the subject of “non contact” sports...

McKinnon openly admits part of their cycling “strategy” is to barge other racers off the track. Yes, Rachel calls that a strategy. And appears to believe they win races using their intelligence.

And there was an anonymous person on Reddit who said (in cycling language) that they had practiced with McKinnon and another transwoman and that it was dangerous... female cyclists are usually very skilled by the time they can practice with the fastest racers, but McKinnon had moved up through the ranks without developing cycling skill so doesn’t have the control over their bike needed to avoid crashing into other racers.

Not sure how to interpret those two perspectives in conjunction with each other. But it demonstrates that what you might assume to be a “non-contact sport” sometimes isn’t.

Martina bless her she's trying to get this talked about but everybody is sticking their fingers in their ears and going la la la transphobia

That’s interesting homestar. It makes sense that RM has risen quickly through the elite ranks by dint of their superior strength and power. Stands to reason that RM’s only talent is muscle power and they simply haven’t needed to hone their strategic skills.

Martina bless her she's trying to get this talked about but everybody is sticking their fingers in their ears and going la la la transphobia

It's going to be a very rude awakening for her, I suspect. Those of us who have been working away at this for some time are well used to the shut downs, derails and deliberate twisting of what we say.

Martina has been well respected, particularly among those who consider themselves progressive, for a long time. Finding herself cast as the bigot, misrepresented and ignored, she'll either shrink back, wounded, or she will reach further heights of understanding and follow the rest of us down the transrabbit hole of horror and be a fearsome GC voice.

I hope she stands firm. She's a game changer if she digs in.

Finding herself cast as the bigot, misrepresented and ignored, she'll either shrink back, wounded, or she will reach further heights of understanding

Yup Floralbuntingisobnoxious, it's interesting that Martina and Sharron Davies have both come out as critical of trans women competing with women. I can imagine few things being more disheartening to an elite athlete who has sacrificed a lot to reach the top of their sport than to find they are competing against someone whose performance is mainly down to muscle mass, height etc acquired when living as a man/boy. Almost everyone understands the logic of sex segregation in sport. In many other areas, it doesn't matter - I'm thinking of Fiona Shaw as Julius Caesar or Maxine Peake as Hamlet. We can all choose whether to see a particular production or not. This is not true for athletes.

Almost everyone understands the logic of sex segregation in sport.

Well, I can tell you for a fact that Entry Central (a website which handles entries for all sorts of sports events) doesn't. Just had to register so I can pay a club membership, and it asks for gender rather than sex, with the options being "male", "female" or "non-binary".

There goes grassroots women's sport, everyone. It was nice while it lasted

Athlete Ally
@AthleteAlly
Navratilova’s recent comments are transphobic, based on a false data, and perpetuate dangerous myths that lead to the ongoing targeting of trans people. She has been removed from our Advisory Board and as an Athlete Ally Ambassador, effective immediately.

www.athleteally.org/navratilovas-statements-transphobic-counter-to-our-work-vision/

Gawd ewe

Couldn't read that steaming pile of horseshit beyond the first line.

There is no evidence at all that the average trans woman is any bigger, stronger, or faster than the average cisgender woman

Did I actually just read that?

I mean, come ON.

I have to admit that the sheer shamelessness of TRA lying makes it somewhat effective, people get confused into shutting up, but "bigger" elevates the gaslighting to a whole new dimension. Who are you going to believe, "Athlete Ally" or your own lying eyes?

archive.is/id7fn

that post is so insane that I archived it. Just so I can prove these people who think that transwomen don't have an advantage in sport, literally claim transwomen aren't any bigger on average than women.

Honestly it's quite frightening how mad it is now. And how these people actually feel justified in tweeting this nonsense

We only had access to some sports, basic rights and higher education for 50 years or so.
I wonder how far back things will go for women, and what effect his will all have on society as a whole.

that post is so insane that I archived it. Just so I can prove these people who think that transwomen don't have an advantage in sport, literally claim transwomen aren't any bigger on average than women.

I’ll admit I’m small as a woman, I’m only just over 5ft. However every TW I have met has TOWERED over me. Most women I meet are a bit taller but very few tower over me.

I’m aware tall women do exist, I’ve a couple of friends who are 5ft 10 and 6ft respectively but they are very much the exception.

I’ll also say my husband is 6ft 1. So slightly taller than the average male. He’s slim but could overpower me with one hand tied behind his back.

To say there’s no advantage or that TW aren’t any bigger is just utter bullshit.

He’s slim but could overpower me with one hand tied behind his back.

We know that men can overpower women.

If a man wants to have sex with a woman, it doesn't matter if she doesn't want to. He can just go ahead and rape her, if he wants to. We all know this.

I'm 5'10", but I wouldn't be able to stop (even) a (shorter) man from doing this, if he wanted to.

Transwomen are the only ones who don't seem to inherently understand this on the same level as women.

twitter.com/Mollycoddles12/status/1098145364874530816

Poll on twitter here asking for debate in this issue