Martina speaks out!

[PimmsnLemonade]

I'm so pleased to see this. I've been a big fan of Martina since I was a kid and this just makes her go up even higher in my estimation:

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/martina-navratilova-blasts-cheating-transgender-women-in-sport-8fmjbnh99

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-rules-on-trans-athletes-reward-cheats-and-punish-the-innocent-klsrq6h3

MillyTant is right - Ellis Cashmore has always been a rent-a-gob. He's been coming out with self-promoting crap for the last 40 years.

And isn't it dispiriting that Jasmin Paris's magnificent achievement in winning the 268-mile ultramarathon is now being used as a stick to beat us with? Paris did brilliantly. But her achievement is so notable precisely because it's an exception. Relatively speaking, female athletes do well at endurance events. But they don't do as well at events that require muscle power or bursts of intense speed. Name any track or field event you care to imagine (100m, 200m, 800m, javelin, shotput, discus, high jump, long jump, pole vault) and men are way ahead of women.

The notion that because one woman has excelled at an endurance event, men should now be allowed to compete alongside women in other sports is pure idiocy. Cashmore is an embarrassment to his university.

The Times has played a blinder - two high profile stories in the Sunday Times and then the BBC disinviting Nic onto Sunday Live 5 keeps the story going. The BBC have now made the story about them and the media correspondent has written it - I haven’t seen him write anything on this issue so far (May be wrong) but they will keep on it now and the next time it happens it will be reported.

When is the next Tennis Open - will be interesting to see BBC commentary lone up? If the BBC don’t include Martina i’m Sure another broadcaster will and the story will keep running. This highlights the issue more and more. Fantastic own goal

From the Dawn Ennis Mirror article

"The father-of-three explained to colleagues that she believed her gender mix-up was linked to her mother giving her oestrogen as a child to prolong a childhood acting career.

Ennis said she ended up developing breasts and thinking as a woman."

Probably not a good idea to give hormones to children then?

Mothers are to blame for everything. /sarcasm

she believed her gender mix-up was linked to her mother giving her oestrogen as a child to prolong a childhood acting career.

That’s a novel spin on a stereotypical AGP lie. Normally it’s the fault of their mothers who made them wear girls’ underwear for [insert ridiculous reason here.]

The extent to which their fantasies involve their female relatives is one disturbing tbh.

Amy Eileen Hamm
@preta_6
Bye women’s sports! New policy for CWG: no one even ASKS your bio sex. (So is this recognition that the pitiful testosterone rules are useless?)

I’d love to see women, en masse, refuse to compete in unfair matches.

www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-canada-winter-games-implements-new-gender-inclusion-policy-for-2019/

“Because athletes aren’t asked to provide their gender — only which gender they’ll be competing as — Patterson doesn’t know how many athletes the new policy will benefit.”

They forgot a word: they don’t know how many MALE athletes this will benefit.

Has anyone seen this video? She is great and the comments are 100% in agreement.

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=keybXeySrXg

I’d love to see women, en masse, refuse to compete in unfair matches.

I’d love to see Rachel McKinnon line up for a race alone. I bet she’d still happily stand on top of the podium waving the medal and bouquet.

EweSurname

So that's an end of women's winter sports in Canada. Eddie the eagle can finally get a gold medal in ski jump so long as he says he's a woman.

In fact I'd live to see Eddie make that comeback. The entire world would see the insanity for once and for all.

Anyold, I love PeachYoghurt. She peaktransed me.

www.wsj.com/articles/martina-navratilovas-girl-power-11550519654

The Wall Street Journal has covered this - the comments are varied and interesting but not many saying it would be fair for males to compete in women's sports.

love to see I meant. And live.

When RK says RK hasn't broken any rules, therefore, technically, RK is not cheating, then RK is correct. Morally/ethically, however, most people will still regard it as blatantly unfair.

The real bastards culprits in this are the officials who have allowed this situation to arise in the first place.

The real bastards culprits in this are the officials who have allowed this situation to arise in the first place.

I don't know. Strategic litigation by deranged and controlling ideologues has got most institutions on the back foot. If you dont kowtow and genuflect before their ideology and its stunning and brave followers, they set out to do nothing other than destroy you. Most organisations can't take that risk when media outlets like the beeb, CNN and The Guardian just make shit up about where public opinion is on this.

I don't know if this has been already posted: I found it on the FPFW Facebook page:

I hope women start reminding everyone that McKinnon's dissertation was/is: "Reasonable Assertions: On Norms of Assertion and Why You Don't Need to Know What You're Talking About" 😂

"ABSTRACT: There’s a widespread conviction in the norms of assertion literature that an agent’s asserting something false merits criticism. As Williamson puts it, asserting something false is likened to cheating at the game of assertion. Most writers on the topic have consequently proposed factive norms of assertion – ones on which truth is a necessary condition for the proper performance of an assertion. However, I argue that this view is mistaken. I suggest that we can illuminate the error by introducing a theoretical distinction between the norm of a practice and its goal. In light of this distinction, we can see that proponents of factive norms tend to mistake the goal of a practice for the norm. In making my case, I present an analogy between the norms and goals of placing wagers and the norms and goals of assertion. One may place a bet and lose without being subject to criticism, while one may win and be worthy of criticism." uwspace.uwaterloo.ca/handle/10012/6619

Their argument is that the range of ability between different women is bigger than the range of ability between men and women.
Eg, In a sport where height was an advantage, a 6ft woman will have a greater advantage over a 5ft woman than a 6ft 2" man would have over the 6ft woman.
It's a bollocks, meaningless argument that intentionally omits vital information but McKinnon prefers manipulation over facts

Doesn’t she just? That’s such a bad argument. A male is far more likely to have the height advantage.

Honestly this is a bad tactic for the TRAs to maintain the sports point. Public opinion is not with them on this and they’ll turn a lot of people away from their cause.

Eg, In a sport where height was an advantage, a 6ft woman will have a greater advantage over a 5ft woman than a 6ft 2" man would have over the 6ft woman.

That's idiotic, isn't it? Everyone knows there's an overlap between the sexes but at the top end, men will almost always have an advantage. That's why you get male basketball players who are 6ft 8 inches - but there are almost no women (if any) who are that height. Wikipedia helpfully has a list of male basketball players in the past 30 years who were over 7 ft. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_players_in_National_Basketball_Association_history

I think sports is where many people stop and think. My DH was understanding but fairly meh about the whole trans issue until I pointed out that the sport he enjoys could easily see a transwoman totally skew the ladies field. The scales dropped from his eyes.
This is the key area where the differences between men and women can't be ignored. If you started to see high numbers of mediocre male athletes suddenly declaring themselves female and winning, the facade of trans as a method of cheating will be apparent.

Public opinion is not with them on this and they’ll turn a lot of people away from their cause.

Good.

A lot of sport is already split by ability rather than sex. But this is at a sports for leisure level, not elite. e.g. my wife's running club goes out in groups based on ability. She's pretty good, better than most of the men in the club. But out of the 8 or so ability groups, there are no women in the top group and only a couple in the second group.

Presumably although they train together they aren’t then competing against each other in races, whats?

whatsthecomingoverthehill

I used to compete at cycling back in the late seventies and eighties. In club events men and women competed but there always different categories for the sexes (as there were for junior boys and girls and men and women veterans).
I wasn't the fastest rider in my club by any means, but in 1982 I set my PB for 10 miles on a local course @21m 58s.
The women's course record on that course is currently held by multiple Olympic gold medal winner Jo Rowsell @ 22m 37s.
The men's record is currently 19m 36s.
There is a huge gulf between men's and women's athletic performance, and it is going to make a complete mockery of women's sport if mediocre riders like McKinnon are allowed to compete and win in women's events.

Most sport even at amateur level is classed by sex so no matter what the activity there are graded listings for best woman and best man titles. Same goes for records.

Fastest/strongest/tallest woman means nothing if it is a title held by a man. It is instead by definition fastest/strongest/tallest person because it is now a mixed class.

How anyone can refuse to see that this is the removal of women from sport is just stupidity.

It is so clear.

But they are coming up with all sorts of complicated sounding cod science to try to justify it and confuse people into going along with it.