Martina speaks out!

[PimmsnLemonade]

I'm so pleased to see this. I've been a big fan of Martina since I was a kid and this just makes her go up even higher in my estimation:

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/martina-navratilova-blasts-cheating-transgender-women-in-sport-8fmjbnh99

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-rules-on-trans-athletes-reward-cheats-and-punish-the-innocent-klsrq6h3

The goal is definitely to get rid of any means of distinguishing biological woman as a group. IW and RM both call themselves biological woman, but I've actually seen transwomen saying that they are cis women - logic being that their bodies are female and so is their gender ID so they're cis! I first saw it argued by someone who had undergone full SRS but then the above argument was used.

The reality is that if we accept "cis" as a label, then they'll just come for that too. We are not allowed to identify ourselves as a class of people. Being nice and accepting their chosen label will not appease in the long term

I've read a few tweets recently saying that the term "biological woman" is only used by terfs. Apparently the term CIS woman must always be used to show that you're not a terf. I mean, do fuck off with that please!

Maybe the push for 'biological woman' is a tactic to make the actual target of 'woman' look less of a land grab?

There's a point where the delusionality goes beyond bothering to engage with.

I think it's a case of: "I am biological. I am a woman. Therefore I am a biological woman."

Where's Plato when you need him?

I always have used people's preferred pronouns but under the current climate I'm beginning to see how damaging that has been. I'm going to buckle up and speak the reality I see from now on. If they're a man, I'll be calling him he/him because that's the reality of the situation... however much sympathy I may have with them. I'm out of the game.

I refuse to call a single person 'they' because that is a plural pronoun; the singular is 'it'. Don't give a flying fuck if he/she doesn't like it. There's no such thing as 'non-binary' person except in deluded minds.

I did see a personage with a ‘Them/They’ badge in a state of high dudgeon talking in a very animated manner to some police officers (who were trying to get into Greggs for their lunch). This blue haired personage appeared to be a female born manga character of around 20 of your human years (but self IDing as a primary school aged personage judging by their clothing) and Very Upset and Hurty about something.

I could’ve be bothered to take my headphones off for a proper nosey but I could see that they weren’t crying or physically hurt and the officers were giving serious faced, long, slow nods, with their hands on their hips (like they do when accosted by small children demanding they track down a missing toy).

My guess was someone called them/they/diddly ‘miss’.

Oh ffs. If the illogical word-manglers are going to get ridiculous about 'biological women' as a polite, factual distinction from 'transwomen' then we will need to return to 'women' meaning no-one but 'adult human females' (persons with XX chromosomes or female intersex conditions) and men, 'adult human males' (persons with XY chromosomes or male intersex conditions).

RM is not a 'biological woman'. RM is not, and can never be, a female. It doesn't how loudly RM makes false assertions, they remain untrue and unacceptable. If you're going to try to use scientific terms (like 'biology' or 'female') then you must expect to be held to scientific standards of objective truth.

Sharon Davies retweeted fpfw talking about her interview earlier. The person she was discussing with was a professor of sociology (an other one)

The reality is that if we accept "cis" as a label, then they'll just come for that too. We are not allowed to identify ourselves as a class of people. Being nice and accepting their chosen label will not appease in the long term

This. First they took "woman", but we still had female. Then they took that too. And now biological and cis woman. We are not allowed to have a word that distinguishes us as any different from trans women. Well, not one of our own choosing anyway. It's fine for us to be labelled "bleeders"

Add real woman, natal woman, born woman, genetic woman, girl...they've co-opted all of them too.

and let's not forget we can no longer be bleeders since tw have periods too dontcha know

I've just listened to both radio interviews on the way home and I'm fuming. If anything the radio 2 one with Sharon Davies was even more enraging. They had a (Male) sociology lecturer who was allowed to talk over Sharon and explained that society is moving away from the binary to fluidity and sport needs to keep up with the times. If women train the same way as men they can get the same results. How Sharon didn't lose her shit I don't know. Do they choose these people on purpose to show how ridiculous their stance is and make us all peak? Maybe there's some reverse psychology behind it. But I don't think the producers are clever enough to think that through, more likely they are just trying to push the agenda.

Society can move towards nonbinary/fluid gender by all means ... but the two sexes and human sexual dimorphism have evolved over millions of years and they're unchanged by society. Sports are divided by sex, not 'gender' because humans are dimorphic. Sociologists are not the relevant experts to call in to discuss this matter.

If women train the same way as men they can get the same results.

Oh, riiiiiiight. That's where elite sportswomen and their trainers have been going wrong all these decades. 🙄

Sociologists know fuck all about this - sorry if I take your nonsense with a grain of salt.

There's a point where the delusionality goes beyond bothering to engage with.

Absolutely.

Add real woman, natal woman, born woman, genetic woman, girl...they've co-opted all of them too.

And they will take everything we have if they aren't stopped. There will never be a point where they are satisfied because this is about total control and narcissistic supply.

I've thought of a new acronym
Women Objecting to Males' Endless Narcissism

Nice Errol

Not RTFT but just caught a tiny bit of sky news and looks like they’re talking to McKinnon.

Yes they will lay claim to everything, it's essentially a hostile takeover of womanhood. I keep wondering if someone's doctored my tea bags with a mind altering drug because I can't quite believe what is happening.

ErrolTheDragon Mon 18-Feb-19 19:55:18

I've thought of a new acronym
Women Objecting to Males' Endless Narcissism

Gold star Errol!

Andyoldlabour
Thanks for that background, Andy. Yes, it is a prime example of how things aren’t always as simple as they might initially seem. I remember people talking about transgender athletes in Rio but clearly if they were there, they kept a lower profile than RM!

McTufty and all the others who responded on the ‘winning everything left, right and centr’ comments it’s makes sense (in a twisted kind of way).

FFS what is it with the women just need to train harder - it’s gaslighting on an epic scale.