The Sun admit the Ian Huntley isTrans story was made up

[FeministFrequencyFan]

twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/1094931865318948864

A timely, if incredibly worrying reminder, that we should view all stories about minorities from our press with extreme skepticism. I hope this is the only fabricated inflammatory anti-trans story our press has published, it would be awful if the debate regarding trans rights was being used as cover by bigots to spread anti-trans hatred.

But there are so many genders
Where should none binary people go

arguing that there's no specific law that gives you the right not to be murdered means you don't have the right not to be murdered when obviously we all have the right not to be murdered.

Right, did you know there are more trans murders in the UK than those murdered.

The right to be placed in a prison that matches their gender, subject to a review by prison services.

Okay, now we are getting somewhere, wanting to actually define this in law around what it and the risk assessment means is presumably what you call a 'roll back'.

*So let's get this straight. You don't think any man ever would ever take advantage of a law which says you can self id as a woman and therefore have access to women in prisons, changing rooms or toilets, or be able to carry out intimate exams of women 'as a woman'?

Honestly? Given everything that you know about the lengths that men will go to to access vulnerable people, you don't think self id is ripe for being abused?

Come on now.*

I think it's utterly ridiculous to suggest a man would go through the process of having his gender officially changed in order to assault women when there are numerous easier ways to go about achieving that goal.

So no, I do not think self-id is ripe for abuse which is we haven't seen anything of the sort in any of the countries where self-id is in place.

The right to be placed in a prison that matches their gender, subject to a review by prison services.

You think that is some sort of human right? To be able to just choose whether you go to a male or female prison, depending on how you feel?

No honey.

Oh and by the way, Karen White was 'subject to a review by prison services' and look how that turned out. And don't start with the whole 'don't tar all trans people with the same brush' crap either.

The point is that is doesn't matter if a male is trans or not in a culture where they can simply say 'I am a woman' and they can get transferred to a female prison if the prison service thinks its 'safe' (as they did in Karen Whites case).

And if you don't think that will be open to abuse by men (especially men who are already criminals) then you are incredibly naive and probably shouldn't be taking part in a discussion about safeguarding women in prison.

Is that correct?

As more prisioners become trans, do you not think laws need to be reviewed openly?

So you believe there are convicted rapists including Karen White who are actually women?

I think it's utterly ridiculous to suggest a man would go through the process of having his gender officially changed in order to assault women when there are numerous easier ways to go about achieving that goal.

Karen White.

I think it's utterly ridiculous to suggest a man would go through the process of having his gender officially changed in order to assault women when there are numerous easier ways to go about achieving that goal.

What are the 'numerous ways' in which a man can gain close proximity access to vulnerable women in prison?

I think it's utterly ridiculous to suggest a man would go through the process of having his gender officially changed in order to assault women when there are numerous easier ways to go about achieving that goal.

This is so naive its frightening.
Men like White don't pretend to be trans in order to access women, the cross dressing is part of their fetish.

Okay, now we are getting somewhere, wanting to actually define this in law around what it and the risk assessment means is presumably what you call a 'roll back'.

Well of course. Considering the needs/rights of female people is transphobic, we know this already.

Jsyk, I'm just going to skip straight to ignoring you if your next argument is there's no specific law that gives people this right, as if arguing that there's no specific law that gives you the right not to be murdered means you don't have the right not to be murdered when obviously we all have the right not to be murdered

Are you a lawyer? Because the common law gives us the right not to be murdered to use your parlance - or more accurately prohibits people from committing murder. I am astonished you would think the common law is a good comparison to make. It makes no sense at all.

I think it's utterly ridiculous to suggest a man would go through the process of having his gender officially changed in order to assault women when there are numerous easier ways to go about achieving that goal.

Erm, but self ID means..self ID. No process necessary. Hence the problem!

OP, could you engage with the point made that the fact people were so quick to affirm this gender identity shows that actually people are entitled to be concerned about self ID?

Could you also confirm, given you seem to dislike straw men, that no one sensible has argued that all trans women are predators or that trans women shouldn’t have the right to exist which I hear with alarming regularity on Twitter?

That’s irrespective of the Lian issue suggesting the story wasn’t totally fabricated.

Well groups like Fair Play for Women have previously said "No reason to assume they're mentally ill. They're criminal predators. The experts give a range of reasons for wanting to 'trans' - all are calculated, rational." ( source: archive.is/96ua8 )

So I fully agree that no one sensible has said that.

The right to be placed in a prison that matches their gender, subject to a review by prison services

This was never a legal ‘right’, except for the under 5,000 people with a GRC.

And even then, it’s not a right, as natal women can theoretically be legally held in the male estate anyway - this policy just isn’t used at present because there ARE NO natal women who need maximum security status.

LOL. A cohort of male prisoners who are four times more likely to be sex offenders than male prisoners as a whole are having their rights to offend rolled back by being accommodated with prisoners of the same birth sex and similar risk category. Good one.

I'd say 0/10 but I'll up it to 1/10 for not plopping, OP.

I'm pleased you are responding, talking is good isn't it.

Prisoners are currently faking religion just to get better meals, so if you think predators won’t fake being trans to get close to a potential victim pool you are very naive.

Ok op so the right you think may be taken away from a Trans person, is the right to be placed in a prison that matches their gender.
You have then added subject to a review by prison services.
Ok, I see what you are getting at now.
I don't believe that a man, a criminal should be able to say I'm a woman and demand to be placed in a female prison.
There were no reviews about Karen White and that didn't go very well did it?
As for Trans men wanting to be placed in a men's prison, nope can't see that working either

Up to now we have had
Work for a charity
Become a scout leader/football coach
Work in education
Become a doctor
Join the priesthood

As just a few examples of ways in which men have ensured they have access to vulnerable people. The safeguarding checks on all of those things have now increased hugely.

And yet at the same time, people want to put forward a law in which any man could 'self identify' as a woman and gain the legal rights and protections of women, including being able to use vulnerable women's spaces? And people can't see a problem with it?

It's fucking nuts! (pardon the pun)

Fae has chipped in on Jeremy Vine’s twitter feed saying “You might wonder whether we should be so quick to take the words of people who are, by defninition, criminals”

Fae, at the time, defended IH's right to be treated like a woman.

OP I seem to remember that came from a thread about actual criminals, as indicated by the tweet they’re replying to saying “and they all want to move to a female prison”. So could you please link the whole thread if you disagree with this? Tweets are no longer there. Because I would hate to think you’re doing the usual TRA trick of mischaracterising everything, because your arguments simply aren’t up to a straight battle.

Doesn’t that FPFW quote refer to predatory criminals rather than all trans people? A rather specific set of offenders.

Yes it does.