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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Womb transplants for trans women are a human right, says surgeon

766 replies

QuietContraryMary · 08/02/2019 22:14

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-women-should-entitled-womb-13972102

"Because once the medical community accept this as a treatment for cis-women with uterine infertility, such as congenital absence of a womb, then it would be illegal to deny a trans-female who has completed her transition.

"The most important step is the harvesting from the donor as great care is required to avoid damage to the arteries and veins supplying the uterus.
Trans females have a much narrower pelvis than cis-women of the same height, but there would still be room for them to carry a child.

“Supplemental hormones could be taken to replicate the changes that occur in the body when a woman is pregnant.

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nocoolnamesleft · 09/02/2019 02:00

Gender dysphoria is a real, and distressing, condition. Autogynophilia is a real fetish. Recognising that the fetishists have been coopting the trans movement, to the serious detriment of both women and those who actually have gender dysphoria, is not bigotry.

And the surgeon is very clearly one of those cosmetic orientated surgeons who have not got their head around the difference between form and function.

Smotheroffive · 09/02/2019 02:03

You've lost me! Where are you coming from that you think it would be a wonderful thing to see men having babies?!?! Why? Why is this nonsense being entertained....its now goady shit

SignMeUp · 09/02/2019 02:05

Spine Chilling

Divingintothis · 09/02/2019 02:06

For a lot of reasons:

  • For the benefit of those who suffer gender dysmorphia and transition.
  • For the benefit of women in couples for whom pregnancy is unsafe.
  • For erasing the stigma that comes with being a woman of childbearing age and all the unconcsious bias that hampers career advancement that comes with it.

I never once said it should be

Divingintothis · 09/02/2019 02:09

Having a genuine issue with posting, hence the unfinished post.

Was going on to say I never said it should be prioritised over medical advancements that would save lives, I’m simply saying I think it would be a good thing for it to be physically possible.

Reallyevilmuffin · 09/02/2019 02:09

Science does a lot of we can do this, but not enough should we do this. Womb transplants are rare but a thing, although it is much easier to plug one that will allow childbirth into someone who has the right vessels there and space to put it in. The hormones aspect is also done for those with turners who sometimes can successfully carry an IVF baby whilst unable to conceive naturally. So actually the only new part of this is doing it all together in a trans person.

These are also all rather big and dangerous procedures, not to mention a normal pregnancy is risky for clots and complications. This seems utterly mental to me that we are pandering to this wish. It seems to boil down to - I want to be as much of a woman as possible, women carry babies, so I must. With no thought of consequence especially to the unborn child.

When you factor in the fact that this is not the only way to have a family it becomes lunacy imo.

However the woke right on trans activists will shut down any rational debate with annoying phrases like you can't know what I am going through and a list of ever increasing bizzare rights. No one wants a twitter storm these days (if you're on such a weird platform)

Divingintothis · 09/02/2019 02:10

I am mystified that people are so angry with me over this. I am literally just saying if there were a medically safe way for men to carry children, I feel that would be a good thing. Why is that spine chilling?

AuntieOxident · 09/02/2019 02:11

I would personally love to see a safe and effective developement of a method for those born male to have babies.

How about we focus first on research into helping the many hundreds of thousands of women coping with the misery of infertility, of recurrent miscarriage, incompetent cervix, and the myriad issues that affect our female reproductive systems?
When we’ve fixed all then perhaps the technology can be extended to help men have babies. That will probably be about the same time as when hell freezes over. (Unless yet more misogynist billionaires fund such research purely for the benefit of transwomen. )

Jazzbunny · 09/02/2019 02:11

Doesn't Stonewall take its name from the Stonewall riots which were transgender women and transvestites fighting the police after being arrested for being homosexual?

I think the big problem here is that a lot of people don't recognise that transwomen are women. And they believe that isn't transphobic.

Because if you acknowledge transwomen as women, then there is no erosion of rights. However, there does need to be a distinction between transsexual (transwoman or transgender woman), transvestite (cross-dresser), drag queen, non-binary. The last three are not women.

You mention Karen White... and yes, that's an evil piece of work. But let's not kid ourselves here that all women in prison are saints. Rosemary West did her fair share of crime against women.

Transwomen are raped, they are murdered, they are assaulted, they are trafficked, and they face domestic abuse too. So why the hostility towards them?

I only worked this out because of a comment on here... but from what I can see, 0.0005% of women are murdered by men in the UK. 0.0066% of transwomen are murdered by men in the UK (based on the registered number of transwomen who have been referred to a gender identity clinic in the UK).

BUT, this isn't a competition about who has the worst murder statistics etc. The point is that both women and transwomen have and still are being treated very poorly by men. That's the real fight. So surely the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

It saddens me to see all this venom directed at the wrong people.

And yes, a middle class transwoman might or might not be more vulnerable than a poor non-white lesbian... but I bet a poor non-white transwoman is just as vulnerable. The fact that we are having a competition on who has been most hurt by men should tell you that transwomen are not the problem here... it is MEN! But if we continue to attack transwomen instead of embracing them as allies, then we too become part of the problem. We become complicit in male violence. That is a problem.

I use the term alt-right because I spend a lot of time actually fighting the right people and I don't distinguish whether they're American, British or whatever... It is the internet and there is a lot of overlap. My experience is that a lot of incels and misogynists are also far right or alt-right and regardless of where they live in the world they support Trump. There's a lot of overlap.

And as for the womb transplant thing... seriously why does it matter? Why are people getting angry over something that doesn't affect their lives? Why not get angry about something that does affect our lives? As long as whoever is involved is a consenting adult and knows the risks, then let them get on with it. The chances are it will never be approved to be performed on the NHS but that's a discussion that can be held when it becomes an actual possibility.

In the meanwhile, let's try and be a bit more loving, a little less hating, and focus our attention on the real problem.

Divingintothis · 09/02/2019 02:14

Smother, I’m honestly the least goady person on the planet. I actually feel a bit sick at having being so angry with me over it. My instinct is to apologise and run away.

That said, I do stand by what I said. If there were a MEDICALLY SAFE (sorry for caps, don’t know to bold), way for this to happen, I would see it as a good thing.

Smotheroffive · 09/02/2019 02:17

That's quite a goady thing to say to women who you now know full well their take on it. Why do you think we need to know you think this, when its such a frankly very odd thing to say? And using caps is equivalent to shouting. Just put a * at the beginning and end of each bold chunk.

Divingintothis · 09/02/2019 02:17

AuntieOxident - nothing in my statement said I thought it should be a priority.

I don’t think medicine that will make me a foot taller should be a priority either, doesn’t mean I don’t think it would be wonderful if it did exist.

MargueritaPink · 09/02/2019 02:18

For the benefit of those who suffer gender dysmorphia and transition

Children should not an accessory created for the purpose of making their parents feel good about themselves.

-For the benefit of women in couples for whom pregnancy is unsafe

See above- maybe these women should come to terms with their lot.

For erasing the stigma that comes with being a woman of childbearing age and all the unconcsious bias that hampers career advancement that comes with it

What stigma is that? You're just making things up now.

The idea that a hideously expensive and complicated procedure, reliant on the availability of donated organs, will resolve the problems that some women have in taking a career break is just laughable.

Divingintothis · 09/02/2019 02:20

Smother, this board is literally here for people to give their opinions.
I’m curious to know why you don’t think it would be a good thing? I’m not talking about the process of research/testing or funding, or priority over other medical advancements. I’m talking about the concept of a man having a baby safely.

Honestly not being goady, genuinely curious.

Smotheroffive · 09/02/2019 02:20

You can't see how what you're saying looks deliberately naïve, as everywhere is makin g it perfectly clear but you keep insisting and are not picking up on it.

wireswireswires · 09/02/2019 02:22

That said, I do stand by what I said. If there were a MEDICALLY SAFE (sorry for caps, don’t know to bold), way for this to happen, I would see it as a good thing.

Fuck you. I'm a woman with hormonal urges that are sending me insane to have a child I can't have and I can't get the medical help I need for that.

Fuck all this noise. It's utter insanity.

Smotheroffive · 09/02/2019 02:22

Why? Why good? Do you think it would also be good for women to have a penis and testicles? Its just talking about nonsense really. If you dream of having babies then you can have your dreams.

Smotheroffive · 09/02/2019 02:23

It is utter nonsense.

Smotheroffive · 09/02/2019 02:24

...and more than that, making light of all the women who struggle to have DC.

Flowers wires

Divingintothis · 09/02/2019 02:27

Marguerita - I think your first two statements could equally be attributed to IVF and that’s a whole other argument. In my opinion, saying people should be happy with their lot is a very strong and slightly shocking statement.

In terms of the stigma that I’m making up, I actually work in this field and give talks on this topic. It is very very real. There is an unconscious bias against women in the workplace in terms of promotion, hiring, opportunities. Of course, there are far less extreme ways of tackling this but I strongly feel that the contribution of men to child rearing is the key to solving this.

Completely understand that extending that to men contributing to childbearing itself is extreme, I’m not suggesting that the medical procedure is developed for that reason, I’m just saying it would be a residual benefit.

Smotheroffive · 09/02/2019 02:28

Can you just tell us women Jazz whether a man with a penis is a woman? That is just what you are saying am expecting us to ...er...swallow!

Divingintothis · 09/02/2019 02:29

Oh gosh - I’m honestly not looking to upset people. I’m kind of at the point where I either disappear from the conversation or change my mind just to appease people.

Wires, I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I didn’t in any way intend to diminish what you’re going through and I’m sorry if it felt that way. I’ve been in that position myself.

Smotheroffive · 09/02/2019 02:30

Men giving birth is the key to solving this...you are living in cloud cuckoo land with statements like that!

Smotheroffive · 09/02/2019 02:31

Rather men give birth, than women just get equal opportunities. Ok, now we see you

Divingintothis · 09/02/2019 02:31

Smother, again I’m only asking to better understand the other side, not to argue. Can you clarify why it makes light of women who are struggling to have children?