Womb transplants for trans women are a human right, says surgeon

[QuietContraryMary]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-women-should-entitled-womb-13972102

"Because once the medical community accept this as a treatment for cis-women with uterine infertility, such as congenital absence of a womb, then it would be illegal to deny a trans-female who has completed her transition.

"The most important step is the harvesting from the donor as great care is required to avoid damage to the arteries and veins supplying the uterus.
Trans females have a much narrower pelvis than cis-women of the same height, but there would still be room for them to carry a child.

“Supplemental hormones could be taken to replicate the changes that occur in the body when a woman is pregnant.

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For the uninitiated, Arsebiscuits is Father Jack, yes, written by, and 'Something Up With Which I Will Not Put' was Winston Churchill's response to being told not to end a sentence with a preposition.

Its all rather a good advert for this privately practising surgeon isn't it?

Much like the free advertising he gained from the Channel 4 program 'Transformation Street'

Presumably he's signally to his potential customers patients that he is fully committed to enabling the rights that they may wish for?

Cutting edge!

"I weep for you" said Jazzbunny, "I deeply sympathise"
With sobs and tears she sorted out those of the largest size
Holding her pocket handkerchief before her streaming eyes.

That is so beautiful 😭

m.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBOQzSk14c

Ah go on then. Just because there is never a wrong time for monty python

Wow

Just, wow!

gmch.gov.in/e-study/e%20lectures/Anatomy/pelvis-uterus.pdf

The primary and secondary supports are mind bending enough, before you even get to the vascular and neuronal systems.

I'm more bothered about this than some posters on here. Is a womb-transplant possible? Probably not. But that's not what this is about. This story is being repeated in order to get the message out there that although this isn't possible right now, because science will be providing it at some point, it's as though it already exists. It's inevitable after all. Therefore, the distinction between men and women in terms of reproductive capability effectively doesn't exist any more.

The story is being used as a Trojan Horse to foster certain ideas in the mind of the gullible. The impossibility of the procedure is neither here nor there.

Naturally I mean transplant into a man so that he can give birth.

This isn't a science thing. This is an Overton Window thing.

The story is being used as a Trojan Horse to foster certain ideas in the mind of the gullible.

Yes, it is almost certainly strategic.

And the thing is, a surprising number of people are ignorant and gullible.

There is no exit in the case of a bleed or miscarriage. If there was some sort of rupture or something else went wrong (highly likely I would have thought) where does it go? Does it just collect in the womb?

For a small bleed it’d collect - that’s not too unusual. For any kind of spontaneous miscarriage or early arrival you’d risk death. It’d kill you. So a man would need to be constantly within reach of a full surgical facility.

This just isnt happening. Men do not have the physiology to carry a foetus.

I note through all this, the desire for a child isn't mentioned. When women who cannot have children speak of this they speak of their desire for a child. Not a desire for pregnancy as a process. And manybof these men are perfectly physically capable of reproduction - using their sperm. If the desire for a child was the driver, they’d be using that sperm. For the driver to be the process of pregnancy, it’s vwry clearly fetishising pregnancy.

This is a paraphilic behaviour. It’s horribly insulting to all women (and men) who would love to be parents and can’t.

It all comes back to validation.

WUM transplant?

When doctors can explain why my teeth went to pieces during pregnancy; why my womb is incapable of carrying to term; why my best friend's womb is incapable of managing the monthly shedding process without acute pain and lumps; why over half of my friends' wombs have failed to retain every fertilised egg that they have produced etc etc etc

THEN we can talk about men having successful womb transplants

Therefore, the distinction between men and women in terms of reproductive capability effectively doesn't exist any more.
Very good point

Belatedly picking up on this post of Jazzbunny's from late last night:

LMAO... 'I also worry greatly about the pressure on young trans men to have hysterectomies, as there's already a research article that blithely talks about these young people as potential donors for trans women.' And you claim not to be transphobic... seriously why are you worried at all? How is going to affect you? It has nothing to do with you and it won't affect you in the slightest.

I was the poster she is quoting here. Why am I worried at all? Because I believe the very sudden huge increase in the numbers of teenage girls identifying as trans is a concern, particularly given the very large number of them who are on the autistic spectrum and/or have pre-existing mental health conditions and/or have experienced abuse. My daughter is fortunately just old enough to have missed this but she fits the first two of these criteria. She would have been vulnerable to the unscientific relentless propaganda on social media telling young, impressionable people that the reason they feel so out of step with everyone else has nothing to do with the obvious reasons I just mentioned, nothing to do with the huge changes going on in the body because of puberty, hormones acting on the brain especially, nothing to do with institutional sexism and misogyny making life tough for young girls suddenly looking like women and attracting unwelcome male attention, nothing to do with some of them starting to suspect that they aren't attracted to the opposite sex but to their own sex, nothing to do with relentless pressure on social media and in our present society generally to meet a totally unattainable standard of grooming and sexiness, nothing to do with young people having easy access to porn that a generation ago would have been regarded as really extreme but which is now mainstream and puts all the emphasis on male pleasure and female degradation and portrays sex as something that women won't enjoy, quite the contrary, but which they have to endure because what men want is everything. None of that explains these girls' dysphoria, apparently - instead, it's all down to being born in the wrong body. Everything will be fine if they can change their hormones and their bodies to look more male. Except it won't, of course.

The lucky ones may socially transition but don't have treatment, get through puberty, grow up and come to terms with all of the above, as best they can. They may still have issues with how women are treated in our society , but they know they're female and they accept that.

The less lucky ones transition and do have treatment but then grow up, detransition and find their bodies permanently changed by the hormones, so for the rest of their lives they have a deep voice and facial hair, at a minimum. We know the long-term effects on a woman's body of taking testosterone for years at a time from the experience of East German athletes given hormones before the end of the Cold War. It wasn't good for them.

Why would I not be concerned about this?

And this latest horror is just the icing on the cake. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5780567/ Academic article whose title is 'Could the female-to-male transgender population be donor candidates for uterus transplantation?'

Pride used to be such an amazing celebration. All is being destroyed. Everything worked, all were on board....until it all changed, now its all aggression and fighting, and lesbians and women being attacked...something happened didn't it.

The difference between men and women's fertility and sexuality will always exist! What a preposterous thought that somehow there will one day be no difference, that will be the day all are born women, or all are born men, and the end of the human race.

Upthread there was discussion about how trans people are much more likely to be murdered than people who are not trans.

A while back I did some basic calculations so I'll repeat them here:

For the general population of England and Wales (E&W), the annual homicide rate for the year ending March 2016 for males (13.8 per million population) was more than twice that for females (6.0 per million population).

The transgender population of the UK is generally given as 0.3% to 0.5%[1] of the UK population. The male population of E&W is 32,000,000 - 2,600,000 (Scotland) = 29,400,000.

At the 0.3% level, then if we look only at male transgender people[2], their homicide is rate 11 per million of population. (0.3% of 29,400,000 males, so 88,000, so 1[3] in 88,000 which is 11 per million of the population). That is, comparing male transgender people with men, they are slightly less likely to be murdered. And comparing them with women, they are twice as likely to be murdered.

At the 0.5% level, for male transgender people[2] the homicide rate is 7 per million of population. (0.5% of 29,400,000 so 147,000, so 1[3] in 147,000 which is 7 per million of the population). That is, comparing male transgender people with men, they are half as likely to be murdered. And comparing them with women, their risk of being murdered is about the same.

If you want to look at the risk male transgender people face compared with the general population (men and women), at the 0.3% level their risk is about the same and at the 0.5% level, their risk is lower.

The reality depends on which percentage of the population figure is correct. However, at the 0.3%/0.5% level we are not looking at some great disproportion of the risk of murder for male transgender people.

[1] If the (also asserted) percentage of the population being transgender is 1% then the risk they face is much smaller (a half or (about) a third) than the numbers calculated above.

[2] This is based on the assumption that there are equal numbers of male transgender people and female transgender people. If there are more male transgender people then the risk they face is smaller than the numbers calculated above.

[3] This is based on the figure of an average of 1 transgender person being murdered in the UK (this is more than just E&W so the figure of 1 is probably a slight overestimate) per year. As far as I can tell, the victims tend to be male transgender people.

Nauticant- any idea what he comparison between gay males and transgender?

Just following a pp’s comment about tg violence coming from homophobia...

You mean murder rate per million of the population of gay males? I don't have that but I might have a look since I am curious. The figure might not have been calculated of course.

The story is being used as a Trojan Horse to foster certain ideas in the mind of the gullible.

Exactly.

It's all about validation. For whatever reason. Which is why blurring the lines between the sexes is vital.

Hence women being considered privileged for having abortions, not being allowed to centre reproductive issues on women's marches, pussy hats being transphobic, lesbians having penises, etc.

And none of it the other way round. No women complaining that men are being transphobic, can't talk about prostate cancer, etc.

Because sexism is alive and well and being promoted at a rate of knots. It's a men's rights movement.

It's blatant, too.

As an antidote to my indigestible post above, here's a very rough version just to give a sense of the numbers.

Let's go with a figure of 500,000 trans people in the UK. It's reported that in the UK 1 trans person is murdered per year. This means that the annual homicide rate for trans people is 2 per million population in the UK.

That compares with 13.8 per million population for males and 6.0 per million population for females (2016 numbers for England and Wales).

How stupid. Transwomen have the necessary equipment should they want children. I got pregnant because I wanted a child not because I wanted to be or experience pregnancy. If it's children they want then surely using what they have is the safest for all involved. This is about fantasy and not the child.