Womb transplants for trans women are a human right, says surgeon

[QuietContraryMary]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-women-should-entitled-womb-13972102

"Because once the medical community accept this as a treatment for cis-women with uterine infertility, such as congenital absence of a womb, then it would be illegal to deny a trans-female who has completed her transition.

"The most important step is the harvesting from the donor as great care is required to avoid damage to the arteries and veins supplying the uterus.
Trans females have a much narrower pelvis than cis-women of the same height, but there would still be room for them to carry a child.

“Supplemental hormones could be taken to replicate the changes that occur in the body when a woman is pregnant.

Blokes will never birth a baby. It's insulting to try to colonise and appropriate this exclusively female experience. Nothing makes the maleness as stark as demanding and mansplaining an experience that they are completely cut off from.
That some transwomen would prefer to push for narcissistic, impossible and dangerous surgeries for themselves - harvesting body parts from women along the way, rather than to identify with, ally with and support women, speaks volumes.

Have some fucking respect.

It didn't say UK women physically attacking transwomen

The post I was quoting was where it said by woman OR man and that they'd wait insinuating it doesn't happen at all by anyone.
You're tacking it to just women when it didn't say that at all.

and none of it has anything to do with womb transplants

Agree!

Ok. There's no arguing with that kind of head in the sand stance

What, asking for evidence? Yeah, there’s no arguing with data.

If you make extraordinary claims, like ‘transwomen are literally being attacked in the Uk by women’ you need to back it up. We need to see evidence.

You saying it all goes unreported isnt good enough. Since the police are calling 74 year old women to warn them for benign and entirely factual remarks made online then I dont think the police are unsympathetic are they? They’ve also warned a bloke for just liking a limerick online and actually detained a woman in the cells overnight for factual remarks. You can’t possibly be saying that an actual attack on a transwoman by a woman would be ignored by the police? Surely? When Susie green can use them as her personal attack force? The police are totally woke - I don’t buy for a second that attacks go unreported.

(Unlike women - that awful case in South Wales springs to mind...)

So where are these Uk examples of transwomen facing violent attack by women? Not ‘disagreement on twitter’, but actual attack? Where are they?

They don’t exist. It’s a false premise to align a group who are not at all marginalised (white middle class males) as an oppressed group. Like the suicide stats which are also made up to force a different risk/balance calculation for affirmative treatment.

Oh my goodness. The transadvocate link is slandering and misrepresenting Linda Bellos saying "if one of those bastards comes near me I'll take my glasses off and thump them" - when she was referring to the thugs who beat up Maria Mclachlan. I don't think anyone knew the assailants 'identities' were female at that point. Tall males with big fists I think was more pertinent I can't believe these concocted pieces of bullshit are being linked to today.

It’s illegal anyway - the HFEA doesn’t allow it.

It’s not going to happen, not with our lifetimes.

WeRiseUp
I used to believe in self-reported hate crime. I know gay people were unlikely to call the police for a gay bashing. I never called them when I was beaten up. I know black people don't trust the police.

But you know what? I don't believe this self reporting at all. Not just trans attacks, but homophobic attacks, racist attacks, islamophobic attacks. I don't believe they are happening at the same rate as the self-reporting.
Just like I didn't believe a my classmates were all having sex at fourteen (they weren't) or that Bob's ex-wife stops him seeing his kids because she's a twisted evil harpy (and Mark's, and Steve's, and Lee's, and Phil's, and Gary's and and and).
Self-reporting, to a sympathetic organisation only, can be motivated by anything. The only gay in the village who is convinced homophobia is all around, because it makes him more special.
It's not even anonymous reporting to crimewatch, or crimestoppers. It's self reporting to a charity or quango type org. Who then just compile numbers and press releases, which somehow become compounded into hard facts.

Some of those reports must be real, because these things do happen. I have personally been attacked. But I reckon it's a small percentage. We aren't seeing third parties calling 999 for dazed and bleeding transwomen everywhere are we? There's no criminal damage being reported for fights in bars, shops, wherever. Taxi drivers aren't refusing to take gangs of skinheads to places where they beat transwomen. This all appears to happen in a vacuum. So I don't believe it. Self-selecting surveys, self-reporting crime, self-identifying nonsense.

I bet we will see attempts, but they will be attempts in countries with little medical regulation and oversight, or they will be done without proper approvals in one with. There will be deaths. Of the men, or the fetuses.

There are huge ethical implications around even doing studies on pregnant women due to risks to mothers and fetuses (to point many studies and trials are not done
even if they could have a huge benefit in terms of treatments), and yet some people think it is totes cool to run these medical experiments on men and fetuses, because men want it and the man’s want trumps the ethical considerations of all?

I am childfree (so yes, Jazz, that means I am on mumsnet and don’t even have children - danger with assumptions) but I absolutely recognize infertility can be devastating for someone. But I don’t think men who can’t carry a pregnancy are “infertile” (yeesh) and I don’t think in any case anyone is ever entitled to a pregnancy, or a child. I won’t allow my uterus to be donated to a woman either, because of my own feelings about having children, and definitely not a man.

Why it matters to me? Because I give a damn about women. Because I am one. Because my friends and family include women. Because I believe this is just another way to erase women and put men’s wants and desires over their voices, and their rights.

Because I can see “allies”, and trans men, and other women being pressured to give up their uterus to men who want to be part of this medical experimentation. And it would be a safe bet to say those who refused to give up a uterus they were not using to a trans men would be called transphobic and much worse.

A uterus is not just a “baby holder”. Hysterectomies can bring positive life changes to women who need them necessarily removed due to endometriosis, or terrible fibroids, or cancer but such uteruses would all be terrible candidates for transplant. Removal of a healthy uterus from a healthy women can have many complications that outweigh well, the removal of a healthy organ. Aside from just the surgical risk, there can be pelvic floor weakness (prolapses), painful sex due to scarring of the effects of a hysterectomy can have on cervix and vaginal canal movement, but even loss of sexual pleasure (uterine contractions can be part of orgasm for some women), etc.

Jazzbunny

"139 women were murdered in the UK, including 21 from terrorist attacks."

As usual you are quoting false numbers. In 2018, 227 females were murdered in the UK.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/homicideinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2018

Women:
-We're going to limit access to IVF, it'll be a postcode lottery as it costs so much/having a baby isn't a right/
-Don't eat pate/blue cheese/runny eggs/anything apart from organic knitted veg in case you damage the baby
-Don't drink
-Don't take medication. Even paracetamol should be used sparingly.
-We don't know if that medication which we need to give you for is safe for baby/breastfeeding because it wouldn't be ethical for us to experiment
-You're selfish/lazy for wanting a c-section. They cost more money! Pregnancy is a choice, you selfish harridan

Men:
-Take a shit ton of hormones to try and replicate the female system
-add in some anti-rejection drugs
-have a c-section
-take a tonne of drugs to try and induce milk
-pack a load of drugs in to your body which might transmit to baby. No ethics issues here
-Oh, an expensive transplant surgery, plus expensive IVF treatment..we can totally fund that!

Fuck that shit.

It didn't say UK women physically attacking transwomen

Great do we can establish that women aren’t attacking transwomen then? Fab.

No Male has ever gestated a child and none will.

Bowlof - you are completely twisting what it said upthread and that I replied to

Isn't that 227 women murdered in England and Wales? Not the UK, so the UK total will be higher?

My friend was one of the women murdered last year(by her partner) but in Scotland not England or Wales.

Some of those reports must be real, because these things do happen. I have personally been attacked.

I agree. But it must depend on the role a person works in, for example, if you work in nursing, probation or homeless services where you will encounter a large number of mentally ill and stressed people at close range - chances are you will be physically attacked, probably much more so if you have a 'protected characteristic' - but in IT, retail or catering - people getting physically attacked by clients or colleagues? I sniff bullshit.

And I meant to add to my last post: in addition to being childfree, I am sterilized. Yet I still have a uterus. Why? Because not only is it important beyond carrying a pregnancy in terms of those things I said above, but because no doctor I have had would recommend removing it if it is healthy for all those reasons above.

But yes, we are now approaching a world where it a man wants a uterus, it trumps the health risks and rights of women who are in possession of healthy (but not being used for pregnancy) uterus. This doctor has himself said it. The “human right” of the trans women trumps all.

Any woman who has a “big operation” should then change her will, to bequeath her uterus to a deserving bloke in a frock.

How we’ll all laugh when she eventually passes on and they find there’s no uterus!

ShihTzup

datun quoting other posters to challenge their points only really works if you quote them properly. You lopped off the entire second half of a sentence to suit your angle.

Oh for goodness sake. It's not that I was leaving anything out, it's that you can call anything they did propaganda!

You go ahead and console yourself that they were relentlessly vilified, and still are by claiming it was because they got ahead of the NHS people, or it was a hot day, or what they said was offensive.

Because that doesn't make the people viciously targeting them look nuts at all.

The bottom line is that they were saying get the L out of the LGBT. They were saying that lesbians are being crushed by the transgender ideology. They were protesting at how lesbians are targeted for sex by men identifying as women.

Something that is prevalent in the trans ideology.

And obviously quite a few people were infuriated by lesbians standing up for themselves.

Including, it appears, you.

Crack on. As I said.

Disagreement is the most revealing thing of all.

Just seen this thread. The idea of transplanting a womb into a man so he can fulfil his fantasy of being pregnant is HORRIFIC.

I was in this discussion into the crazy surreal comments, wee small hours. Its still going on, and I haven't caught up, but the one day they put male fecundity ahead of the biologically designed to be fecund will be the craziest place the world has ever got to! Sadly, there are women who have posted here about their unresolved desperate cravings for a baby, so I absolutely do think its of huge insult to be proposing male child bearings/womb transplants as a louder demand than that of the women who actually were designed to do it and science still can't help them!

Never mind the appalling lack of ethical responsibility as the basis for making such a Frankensteinian statement.

(End of plop)

Do people with cluster B disorders have more conflict with people? Or are they more likely to assume an argument is an attack? Genuine question.

I know gay people were unlikely to call the police for a gay bashing. I never called them when I was beaten up. I know black people don't trust the police.

That's because actually marginalised people are not treated well by state enforcement institutions (regardless of how much virtue signalling the state does).

We can approximate the actual marginalisation of genderists by their willingness to use the police and by the police's willingness to oblige even when no crime has been committed. Hint: not marginalised at all.

We can approximate the actual marginalisation of genderists by their willingness to use the police and by the police's willingness to oblige even when no crime has been committed. Hint: not marginalised at all.
Good point.

Jazzbunny

I've called on you several times now to start addressing the real problem...

This has really amused me. You sound rather full of yourself.

You are being played

Nope, but it's clear how much you have been.

Good point.

Many would argue that exclusion from the same access to due process enjoyed by other citizens is a necessary component of marginalisation. It would certainly mean axes of structural exclusion such as housing and employment.

I do not see any measure by which trans people are structurally marginalised in the UK. They are covered by legislation protecting them from it, and state institutions, including the police, are scrambling to privilege this group, as we have seen by the flurry of recent incidents.

You go ahead and console yourself ... The bottom line is that they were saying get the L out of the LGBT. They were saying that lesbians are being crushed by the transgender ideology. They were protesting at how lesbians are targeted for sex by men identifying as women...

My point is that they did a fairly rubbish job of it in the sense that few people outside the immediate movement understood their message in the way that they intended. Their flyer was perceived as anti trans by the mainstream and by the Pride movement, and their protest was openly and widely condemned as inappropriate for all sorts of reasons that had little to do with the banner with the definition if lesbian on it.

And obviously quite a few people were infuriated by lesbians standing up for themselves. ...Including, it appears, you.

Well now that’s just silly, randomly projecting emotions and motives into posters who point out another angle on something you seem determined to present in a certain light.