Womb transplants for trans women are a human right, says surgeon

[QuietContraryMary]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-women-should-entitled-womb-13972102

"Because once the medical community accept this as a treatment for cis-women with uterine infertility, such as congenital absence of a womb, then it would be illegal to deny a trans-female who has completed her transition.

"The most important step is the harvesting from the donor as great care is required to avoid damage to the arteries and veins supplying the uterus.
Trans females have a much narrower pelvis than cis-women of the same height, but there would still be room for them to carry a child.

“Supplemental hormones could be taken to replicate the changes that occur in the body when a woman is pregnant.

...You do know that even with your transplanted womb, no transwoman could ever give birth via the birth canal?

Skull will not fit through the male pelvis.

Looking forward to that c-section?

Our biology is not responsible for the way in which men treat us.

When those poor schoolgirls in Chibok were rounded up and abducted, and raped, by Boko Haram, how did they know which children to take? Did they check their identities?

The difference is like swapping the engines of two identical model Volkswagen golfs versus trying to put a jet engine into a go kart.
No, you could put a jet engine into a go kart. It wouldn't work very well and you'd need to make changes to the kart to enable it to stay on the ground. Also, it's been done before.
If you want a mechanical analogy it'd have to be something like putting a car engine in place of a spin motor on a washing machine. You'd have to make so many changes to it to allow the engine to pump water instead of just burn fuel to create movement, it would need constant attention, there are a hundred better options and it's quite dangerous to do (the car engine needs to be vented to outside!)

Well I'm quite sure that even if there are any differences in male and female brains, you can't get a female one in a male body.

And even if you could, why would it only be interested in gender stereotypes? And only superficial ones at that.

I don't see a whole bunch of tw deciding that they desperately need to help look after elderly relatives, wash the pants, pick up the socks, write the Christmas cards, and raise the children.

Yes ribs can move (mine sure as hell did..)

There's no such thing as male and female brains, the attributes that used to be associated with male and female are found together in mature brains, showing that brains are individual and the idea of gendered brains is debunked

The surgeon must get asked this a lot by his clients, this must be what he’s telling them -what they want to hear - indulging their fantasy.

What a waste of money when you think of all the financial pressures the NHS already faces and waiting lists for important operations.

trying to put a jet engine into a go kart.

Apparently that's not too difficult.

www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jet+engine+go+kart

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm

www.the-scientist.com/features/are-the-brains-of-transgender-people-different-from-those-of-cisgender-people-30027

www.eceondemand.org/#!resources/gender-dysphoria-and-brain-function

As for the Southbank Centre link... did you read the last bit? ' No-one is denying there are sex differences – and it is really important to stress this point – or that it would be useful to study these differences with all the techniques that the 21st century has to offer.'

The Gina Rippon article: 'There are differences in brains from men and brains from women, but they come from the lives they have lived not the sex of their owners!' Well even if that is true, and she needs to provide better evidence to support that claim in light of the evidence presented on the articles that I've provided links to... then she is still saying that there is a difference, and these neuroscientists are still demonstrating through scans that there is a difference between the brains of transwomen and men.

Also I am not a transactivist... I just don't like seeing vulnerable groups being bullied. I believe in standing up to bullies whether it is transphobic, racist, sexist or whatever else. To call me a bully because I point out your transphobia is nonsense. What kind of argument is that? That's like a man telling me that I am bully because I challenge his excuse to touch women when he feels like it.

And what evidence do I have that they're a vulnerable group... well for starters as a percentage, more transwomen are murdered in the UK than women. We don't know the full statistics for acts of violence and rape because many don't get reported. But this isn't a competition. This isn't an argument about who got hit the hardest by a man, who got raped the worst... Both women and transwomen face the same violence from the same people. So why are we attacking transwomen and not the misogynist men who are the real problem here.

Each time, you bring it back to transwomen... why? They are not the threat.

link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs13178-018-0335-z

www.mediamatters.org/research/2014/03/20/15-experts-debunk-right-wing-transgender-bathro/198533

www1.nyc.gov/assets/cchr/downloads/pdf/MythFact.pdf

To paraphrase John Cleese in the Parrot Sketch, there are times when a Doctor needs to say:

Look Matey, I know a man when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.

The surgeon must get asked this a lot by his clients, this must be what he’s telling them -what they want to hear - indulging their fantasy.

Yes I'm sure you're right. And I was about to say that I'm not the slightest bit concerned that it would actually happen.

But who would have thought we would imprison rapists with incarcerated women, make the definition of woman hate speech, and allow men to sue women for not touching their cock, with the backing of a human rights tribunal (the TW in Canada)?

So I'm sure any confidence it won't happen, on my part, is probably misplaced.

The last time I went to see a gynecologist it was a man. The junior doctor who was shadowing him... was also a man. If you've only got a problem because it is a transwoman... then that's transphobia.

No, the reasons that in the UK male HCPs have female chaperones during intimate examination is because of their sex. Women (adult human females) have sex specific policies such as this, spaces and services for their safety privacy and dignity.

I see my male gyny-oncologist regularly having being treated for gyny cancer. I know him well and given the operation he needed to perform on me, he is likely more familiar with my body than any other.

I trust him absolutely and he would never go ahead with an intimate examination without a female colleague and nor would I expect him to.

Suggesting that women who want long-established bast practice to continue are transphobic is appalling.

Ideology which positions the validation of a male transperson's gender identity over that of female patients and inhibiting the identification of sex-based risk is dangerous.

@Jazzbunny
And as I've already stated... transwomen are not men. They're brains have developed the same as women... considering we experience the world through our minds, that's a pretty significant thing to be ignoring here. I very much doubt anyone chooses all the abuse they get for being trans because of a fetish

I can see where you're coming from there (a lot won't there though hence the previous replies)
Biological woman here with a sense of female self, identity, feel female, I just am, but you get scoffed down and ridiculed if you say so though as "it's only about our body."
No, for me it's not.
It's interesting to hear your view as you never hear somebody else say that on here because the jeering and insults starts.
There could be more to it, I mean, it's not like "just men and their fetish, blah blah" like some always say on here- transmen as well transition from female to male, don't they?
The womb implant though I can't get onboard with as a concept though as I just can't see it happening. There's too much else going on in a female biological body to make babies, and as someone upthread pointed out, what about any drugs/hormones you had to be on?
You feel guilty for having an occasional paracetamol for pain during pregnancy never mind anything else! Not to mention all the stuff you can and can't eat

And what evidence do I have that they're a vulnerable group... well for starters as a percentage, more transwomen are murdered in the UK than women.

Not because they are trans tho. One transwoman was murdered by another transwoman. There are so few as to make it statistically insignificant. There isn't enough data.

And yes, men kill other men. It's not news. It's why we segregate by sex when women are vulnerable.

You seem to be talking about a tiny minority of transwomen. Most of whom are not advocating for this anyway. Certainly not the ones who are trying to change the law.

The ones who hit pensioners, send rape threats, dox women, prevent them from talking, bully, intimidate and threaten.

Just the kind of people you want in your changing room.

Here is a website which collates all the violence women are subjected to over this issue.

If you want to keep advocating for these people to be in women's changing rooms, you go right ahead.

terfisaslur.com/

transwomen are not men. They're brains have developed the same as women... considering we experience the world through our minds
that's a pretty significant thing to be ignoring here
So please do explain pips/Phillip bounce, who transitioned only part time and only when she was high enough in the company to not get sacked.

There seems to be a lot confusion, a transwoman is someone who most likely suffers dysphoria caused by the female development of their brain. They are not the same as crossdressers, non-binaries
and drag queens... who are men. And as I said, if their tackle is useless because of surgery or drugs... then where is the threat

You little T**F you. No discrimination mate, if they say they are women, they are women. You don't get to say only euphoria sufferers are TW.

Dysphoria

I just don't like seeing vulnerable groups being bullied

Objecting to the idea of transplanting wombs is not bullying.

And what evidence do I have that they're a vulnerable group... well for starters as a percentage, more transwomen are murdered in the UK than women.

It would be good to establish the evidence for this before making such an assertion.

jazzbunny

The papers on brain fMRIs are discussed here. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3196135-Scientists-please-gather-round

I am a scientist and I can say categorically that the signals found do NOT mean ‘this is a lady brain.’ If you’re a neuroscientist and would like to explain to me why I’m wrong then please do. I’m all ears. The signals found seem to be associated with dysphoric behaviour, and are also similar to those seen in the regionassociated with fragile sense of self in disorders like schizophrenia. But anyway, those papers are critiqued in that link.

Men have male brains.
There is no ‘wash of hormones making your brain female*
Men are men.

I ask again - do you believe humans can change sex?

she is still saying that there is a difference, and these neuroscientists are still demonstrating through scans that there is a difference between the brains of transwomen and men.

But the differences are like height differences. The average man is taller than the average woman. But there are short men and tall women.

A person who is 6ft tall is more likely to be male than female (but could be female). An adult who is 5ft tall is more likely to be female than male (but could be male). Similarly, a scientist analysing a brain might* be able to say that a brain with certain attributes is more likely to be male than female - but it could still be female.

*I'm not sure whether this is the case or not.

Treefloof

You don't get to say only euphoria sufferers are TW.

Dysphoria

There was a transwomen on here last week, I think it was, who claimed that being trans indeed gave them gender euphoria.

That adopting the stereotypes of women made them feel euphoric.

It was pointed out to them that being paid less, being commodified, treated as lesser than, talked over and mansplained to, was generally not something that most women find euphoric.

I think we concluded they weren't actually talking about that part of 'thinking like a woman'. Just the dresses.

The difference between male and female brains, if it exists, is a result of their prolongued exposure to different hormone cocktails.

Jazzbunny
If you believe that TWAW
Then they all are
As Treefloof pointed out.
They either are or they're not
It's extraordinarily Transphobic of you to suggest otherwise.
BTW
You lost me at they're brains develop differently
No they dont

And what evidence do I have that they're a vulnerable group... well for starters as a percentage, more transwomen are murdered in the UK than women.

In the USA, the murder rate of women is quadruple that of transwomen

In the Uk? Insufficient data. I think there have been two murders in the last eight years? That’s two too many, obviously. Also not enough to make any statistical assumptions from.

But worldwide, we can categorically say that actually, transwoman are LESS likely to be murdered than most other groups. Full breakdown of the data in this rather lengthy, but excellent piece

medium.com/@sue.donym1984/inauthentic-selves-the-modern-lgbtq-movement-is-run-by-philanthropic-astroturf-and-based-on-junk-d08eb6aa1a4b

I’ll pull the relevant bit out here “ So, how many homicides of American transgender people were there in 2016? I am sure you are waiting with bated breath for some kind of titanic, earth shattering number that will have you click ‘exit tab’, and bitch about my bullshit article on Twitter. Okay, here it is:
27.
That’s not a typo. It really is 27. The number of total murders in the US in 2016? 17,250, and disproportionately trending black and male. 27 is 0.15% of murders in the US. In terms of figures, the Williams Foundation did a survey and estimated the number of trans people at 0.6% of the US population. The US population is estimated at 325 million at time of writing, which results in a figure of 1.95 million trans people across America.
We’ll take 1.95 million Americans. If we figure how many trans people are victims of murder a year as a percentage, that figure is 0.0013%. Per capita, that’s a ratio of 1.3 trans people murdered per 100,000. The murder rate of women in the US is triple that, and of men, quadruple. Even with an extremely conservative estimate of 0.1% of the US population (or 325,000 trans people), we have a murder rate of 8.3 per 100,000. The murder rate of Chicago is twice that conservative figure at 16.02 people murdered per 100,000. In terms of gross numbers — that’s 11,535 murders of male Americans, and 3,292 murders of female Americans in 2017. 27 is small potatoes. That is not a murder epidemic — in fact it’s a murder rate per capita lower than Canada. It certainly doesn’t mean that there’s an ‘epidemic of transphobic violence’. That’s not something to campaign about — you’ve got it better than literally everyone else. Even if we use the Human Rights Campaign estimate of 750,000 trans people, which is half the 0.6% number, we get a murder rate of 2.7 per 100,000. That’s not a high murder rate. That’s lower than every other demographic in the US.
There are more bad statistics though. That same article tells us that “globally 1,700 transgender murders have been reported, in the past seven years, according to Arcus data” [emphasis mine].
Your eyes immediately drift to the ‘1,700’ figure, and don’t see the 7 years, do they? That’s why I bolded it. If we take the 0.6% estimate of trans people in the US and apply it globally to a population of 7 billion people, we get 42 million people. 1,700 divided by seven years gives us a grand total of 242 murders a year. That amounts to 0.003 murders per capita of trans people, worldwide, every year. That’s definitely not an epidemic. In fact, that’s a global murder rate lower than every other category on earth. The murder rate per capita of unicycle-riding clowns is probably higher. To #StopTransMurders would be to eliminate the homicide of an entire group of people, which no nation has been able to accomplish. Ever.
Maybe you think 42 million trans people on this earth is too big a number. So, we’ll make the figure 5 million people. A murder rate of 242 per year of a group of 5 million people is still a per capita rate of 4.84 — roughly similar to the US overall murder rate of 4.7. And that’s with a hugely conservative number that I literally pulled out of thin air. All these figures say the same thing — there is no trans murder epidemic — ”