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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I've realised that I just don't like men very much...

999 replies

SandAndSnow · 04/02/2019 14:03

And I wanted to talk through it a bit, if that's ok. I hope this is the right place.

I'm sitting on a train next to a terrible man spreader so I'm feeling a bit raged at the moment, but it's also made me realise that I increasingly tend to treat men with caution and, if I'm honest, dislike.

I'm in my early thirties, have been sexually assaulted by 3 different boys/men, had a truly awful experience with a bullying (male) obstetrician, my father is an emotionally and at times physically abusive bully and I've been passed over for promotion in favour of a younger and less well qualified colleague by a male boss. As well as all the regular crap like street harassment, manspreading etc. I'm happily married, and I have a couple of male friends, but I'm generally much more comfortable and happy in the company of other women.

Now, perhaps I've been unlucky, and I need to just get over all of this. I'm entirely happy to be told this! Smile And I'm happy to be told that this isn't normal, and I should seek help for this too.

But I wonder if other women feel the same, and that this is actually a rational response to the experiences which I've had?

OP posts:
FlyingOink · 07/02/2019 07:22

Are only people who agree with the OP allowed to give their opinions then?
Non sequitur

Weetabixandshreddies · 07/02/2019 07:25

FlyingOink

I think you need to look up the definition of non sequitur

FlyingOink · 07/02/2019 07:25

Weetabixandshreddies
Morning btw. Sleep well?

Weetabixandshreddies · 07/02/2019 07:26

Morning. No I didn't thanks for asking. Never do.

SparkiePolastri · 07/02/2019 07:27

I love the fact that discussions like these totally trigger the MRA snowflakes and their snowflake handmaidens.

They hate that this kind of thing gets talked about. They just want everyone to shut up about it.

FlyingOink · 07/02/2019 07:30
  • poster offers solutions
  • I point out solutions weren't requested but feedback was
  • Weetabix mentions feedback and then asks: Are only people who agree with the OP allowed to give their opinions then? Which has nothing to do with solving a problem for someone when they haven't asked And "She got the feedback - some of it didn't agree with the majority view" Does not lead logically to "OMG are dissenting opinions not even allowed OMG"

Hence non sequitur

Weetabixandshreddies · 07/02/2019 07:40

Hence non sequitur

Op asks for opinions
OP says they are open to opposite opinions too.

Some agree with OP. Some don't.

Then some PPs decide to police the thread and criticise anyone who posted alternate opinions saying how wrong it is for not allowing OP to air her views without opposition despite OP actively welcoming opposing views

You then said that the OP didn't ask for solutions only opinions hence my asking if only people who agree with OP are allowed to post.

So not a non sequitur

FlyingOink · 07/02/2019 07:55

Then some PPs decide to police the thread and criticise anyone who posted alternate opinions nope, didn't happen

Posters disagreed with each other and some questioned if others were posting in good faith. No police, no shut down,a few apologies to the OP because her thread was derailed in fact.
I mentioned the OP wanted feedback and didn't ever suggest she wanted only one view. So your "OMG can nobody even express a different opinion" came out of nowhere.
How come you have trouble sleeping?

GlitterStick · 07/02/2019 08:02

nope didn't happen

Confused er......
Ask for alternate views as well - get them

posters - OMG policing snowflake MRA handmaidens

Rightyo

Some really don't like opposing thoughts do they

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 07/02/2019 08:12

I know feminists are all unfairly painted as "man-haters" but I think that there is a place for discussing our dislike of male behaviour, and we shouldn't feel that we have to censor ourselves because of misogynistic tropes aimed at feminists

Almost as if they knew what was going to happen on the thread

I wonder if they are as good with lottery numbers...

Weetabixandshreddies · 07/02/2019 08:17

GlitterStick

Was just going to post exactly that!

And many more examples throughout.

Weetabixandshreddies · 07/02/2019 08:18

How come you have trouble sleeping?

Why?

Weetabixandshreddies · 07/02/2019 08:23

and we've got 30 pages of women being asked to justify why they might be feeling this way, dismissive pronouncements about never speaking to any men if that's how they feel and sneering judgements about how they shouldn't ever mention their feelings because otherwise people will think badly of them and feminists.

And another one.

Particularly love the
It's the total missing of the point that depresses me on this thread. A woman talks about how she is feeling and expresses a desire to talk with other women about it,

Yes. The OP expressed an opinion and a desire to talk about and also said she welcomed alternative opinions.

If someone is missing the point I suggest it is this poster - spectacularly.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 07/02/2019 08:24

weetabix

Its been my experience on mumsnet that even in the middle of a blazing row posters still express sympathy and give advice on unrelated matters

That poster may well be trying to be clever and say something mean

But its equally as likely if not more likely that they want to offer advice or sympathy

The first thought in my head when you said it was....what a shame, hope its temporary

Weetabixandshreddies · 07/02/2019 08:31

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer
Thank you. Not temporary sadly. Solely down to illness and pain.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 07/02/2019 08:46

Im honestly sorry weetabix lack of sleep is awful, there is a reason withdrawal of it is a form of torture

And obviously not being able to sleep means that pain and illness are so much worse Flowers

Sheelala · 07/02/2019 09:04

For the record i didn't say you were racist, what I was getting at is that sex is the only allowable dimension for analysing the threat someone or a group of other people might pose to you. Even though other dimensions exist, you understand that the general principle of making assumptions about people based on their outward characteristics seems wrong on some level.

But in summary - self segregation is the way forward.

I think that is increasingly happening actually anyway, so you will be pleased.

Men have any number of forums where they can go and talk about how they don't like women, don't want to employ them or help them out and don't want them taking up space in public, how they are generally just annoying. But we mustn't deny these men the opportunity to discuss their experiences by disagreeing with them. After all, disagreement = shutdown of debate it says here.

Men who feel this way should stay the hell away from my daughter and son.

But, women who don't like men can stay away from them as well. Fortunately most women do not share your dislike of "men". I feel sorry for your sons, I honestly don't know what you think you're doing anymore.

I wish that women who don't like men came with a badge so my son can know to avoid them Smile

GlitterStick · 07/02/2019 09:22

Do they really not get it (in which case, I wonder at the sheer stupidity), or do they pretend not to get it, because getting it is just too much to even consider...?

I refuse to irrationally dislike/hate an entire group of people for the actions of some, I see people as PEOPLE and if you're a lovely one, I'm lovely back Smile
Hating them all because of society's demands and culture is just absolutely ridiculous to me, how about just people looking out for people on their actions and merits as an individual as opposed to petty, crap stuff like I was going to do a nice thing for a person and give my parking ticket to someone but eww, man so he's not getting it, haha.
That's what's depressing, the thought of such bitterness and shite walking amongst us, whoever it's coming from

I wish that women who don't like men came with a badge so my son can know to avoid them

Same

Plus if some are married there must be some severe emotional detach or cognitive dissonance going on there somewhere

Weetabixandshreddies · 07/02/2019 09:28

GlitterStick

Hear hear.

FloralBunting · 07/02/2019 09:32

"The OP asked for a discussion. Therefore I feel entirely justified coming on and sneering and insulting them for thinking badly of men in general, which must not be allowed to go unchallenged."

Almost ten pages left, ladies. Feel free to fill it with your important opinions and scorn of any woman who struggles with the consequences of male behaviour.

GlitterStick · 07/02/2019 09:43

Feel free to fill it with your important opinions and scorn of any woman who struggles with the consequences of male behaviour

Nobody's scorning Confused
Even OP herself said I'm entirely happy to be told this! smile And I'm happy to be told that this isn't normal, and I should seek help for this too

Seems some really don't like the thought of different opinions, "and aren't happy to be told this" that no, it really isn't a healthy state to be in
Just pages of validations and stories of why they're all shit.
which would be the opposite of getting two differing opinions really

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 07/02/2019 09:45

what exactly have we done wrong by giving our opposing views?

It's not a problem giving an opposing view, of course. But if you give it over and over again to the point where the thread becomes all about you and your view, you are preventing debate rather than contributing to it.

Calvinsmam · 07/02/2019 09:51

I actually think it’s really important to discuss why (some) men hate women.
If there are forums and forums of people talking about it then surely that points to a bigger issue and just not talking about it is not the way forward. I would much rather people felt able to say ‘this is how I feel, let’s look at why’ rather than pushing it down and it coming out in bad behaviour.

In this thread there haven’t been that many people saying they ‘hate’ men, most of it is women saying they are exhausted, disappointed and just want a break from the patriarchy.

GlitterStick · 07/02/2019 09:52

But if you give it over and over again to the point where the thread becomes all about you and your view, you are preventing debate rather than contributing to it

Nobody's done that? People might have posted more than once but usually in direct response to a question or statement as they're entitled to do - the bizarre thing if you hold an opposing thought on here (in general) is someone'll post a question, so they answer it, they'll get a response and another question or insult so they respond and then get "OMG stop answering my questions or disagreeing with me/ kind of translates into why aren't you just lying down and ignoring my insults instead of just standing up for yourself lol

userschmoozer · 07/02/2019 09:59

''I refuse to irrationally dislike/hate an entire group of people for the actions of some, I see people as PEOPLE and if you're a lovely one, I'm lovely back''

Are the words of someone who has lived in relative safety and cannot empathise with people who have not.

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