I've realised that I just don't like men very much...

[SandAndSnow]

And I wanted to talk through it a bit, if that's ok. I hope this is the right place.

I'm sitting on a train next to a terrible man spreader so I'm feeling a bit raged at the moment, but it's also made me realise that I increasingly tend to treat men with caution and, if I'm honest, dislike.

I'm in my early thirties, have been sexually assaulted by 3 different boys/men, had a truly awful experience with a bullying (male) obstetrician, my father is an emotionally and at times physically abusive bully and I've been passed over for promotion in favour of a younger and less well qualified colleague by a male boss. As well as all the regular crap like street harassment, manspreading etc. I'm happily married, and I have a couple of male friends, but I'm generally much more comfortable and happy in the company of other women.

Now, perhaps I've been unlucky, and I need to just get over all of this. I'm entirely happy to be told this! And I'm happy to be told that this isn't normal, and I should seek help for this too.

But I wonder if other women feel the same, and that this is actually a rational response to the experiences which I've had?

People get so tetchy when they think they've found a perfect gotcha and then nobody is impressed.

Ah do I not get to be in your club because I don't have a general distaste for men ? How entirely unsurprising

Not surprised either
Never really understood why people call feminists man haters, always sounded like a stupid thing to say but the more you hang around MN and see it dripping from some posts and then a whack out blatant thread and full of validation, I get it more now

Interesting how you ignore the fact that OP is happily married and has several male friends.

Do you spend this much energy policing men about their behaviour, or is it just women who get the benefit?

I know quite a lot of men who don’t have much time for men as a class!

I think of it in the same way I think about cats and dogs. I expect to like cats, but occasionally meet one that bites me or that I don’t like. I am wary of dogs apart from the ones I know and like and which I know won’t bite me or chew up my shoes.

bertrand
You’re feministing wrong. You’re not supposed to know or like any men, never mind let them eat your shoes.

Truth! I feel morE like this the older I get.

The overarching feeling I have about men is 'disappointment'.

I don't go on other forums apart from this one so I wouldn't know what they were like - I''m responding to posts I see on here? I'm a MNer.
if I did and they were saying i just don't like women very much and lots agreeing and giving examples of why women are horrible yeah, I would be an opposite view to them as I'd think WTF and I bet most on here would too

You’re forgetting the power imbalance.

If I saw a forum full of black people saying they were exhausted living in a white dominated world and are disappointed to find that even white people they thought were allies to have ingrained racism. So now prefer the company of other black people by in large.

I wouldn’t bat an eye.

Because it’s not men themselves that’s exhausting but living in a patriarchy.

If the hypothetical examples of why you dont like women are 'because women have been violent to me and women as a class are responsible for most of the violence against men' then how would it be silly for you not to like the company of strange women? Who could argue with that?

And the patriarchy is bad for men too.

Bertrand, I hope you took him for a short walk in the vicinity first, so that he could shit behind a tree or in a gutter!

It's the total missing of the point that depresses me on this thread. A woman talks about how she is feeling and expresses a desire to talk with other women about it, and we've got 30 pages of women being asked to justify why they might be feeling this way, dismissive pronouncements about never speaking to any men if that's how they feel and sneering judgements about how they shouldn't ever mention their feelings because otherwise people will think badly of them and feminists.

It's almost like some people don't give a shit about women having a voice and take perverse delight in stamping all over any women who dare to express how they feel about living in a patriarchal system. I wonder why that would be?

Exactly floral

Yes, I agree, FloralBunting - and the sheer persistence of the derailing has been an education in itself!

Posters who really do not like women discussing men!

So I gather. The solution to the OPs problem is obviously...
OP never asked for a solution. She asked for opinions, and feedback.

I'm failing to understand how a bunch of women saying in effect "I don't like men either, and here's why" is much of a point either.
A failure to understand why other people want to discuss something isnt anyone else's problem. This could be twenty pages on seed germination, you might disagree, you might think it's a terrible topic and you might think every other poster is a terrible gardener but that's just your opinion, and nobody else has to give it any weight.

This whole thread is like this:

• we'd like to talk about something
• you're all terrible people for bringing that up

-but we all seem to have similar experiences and would like to discuss them -all but what about your sons/pupils/husbands? Are you hateful? -well no, we just want to talk about why we all seem to feel the same.. -well you're basically racist aren't you? -no -and you'll never have sex again -erm... why? -because you're hateful racists who are mean to little boys -we're not, though

Etc etc etc

Very good summary, FlyingOink.

In future we should just save time and quote FlyingOink on all these threads.

Excellent summaries FlyingOink and FloralBunting. Funny how some of the names detailing here are the same that dominate trans threads with similar whataboutery and poor men attitude. Illuminating indeed. It's bad enough we have men against us but when it's other women too it really makes me angry. They are so much the victims of the patriarchy that they have become the patriarchy. Very sad, and devastating for women.

Derailing not detailing. Silly autocorrect.

This thread confirms what I've long thought - the hard-of-thinking (under-thinkers) seem to find it extremely difficult (impossible) to consider the bigger picture.

It is mind-boggling to me to see people get bogged down in, 'but what about your son / husband / dad??' as if it's in any way relevant to the much wider discussion.

Do they really not get it (in which case, I wonder at the sheer stupidity), or do they pretend not to get it, because getting it is just too much to even consider...?

I feel very much how the OP feels with a similar range of experiences. I think it's a fairly typical experience of the 'death by a thousand papercuts' alongside a few not too awfully horrific (and therefore we shouldn't moan) sexual harassment/assault experiences.

For some reason we're expected to accept this as our normality, and be grateful that we don't have anything really bad to moan about. Women in Saudi have it much worse, so why are we complaining.

I realized that I have inadvertently created an almost entirely female lifestyle. I work somewhere that's 50/50 (ish) but the women are all very much likely to comment on any sexism, even minor things, and it's OK to do that. Almost all of my friends are female. I go to a female book club, female social group and mainly female acting group. I also enjoy lots of cooking and sewing things and they are mainly female when I go to events.

I'm still perfectly capable of downing a pint and being the only woman in the pub watching the rugby - I'm not defined by traditional femininity. But, a lot of the time I'm in groups/situations where casual sexism is unlikely to happen.

It's actually quite a shock when I do suddenly run into something, even a small thing, and I find my tolerance is close to zero.

Recently I was at a big conference where the keynote speaker had an intro that just reeked of overt masculinity - look at me, I'm a hero who will show you all the truth. I walked out. I've heard that shit a million times before, he had nothing new or interesting to say.

Recently I was at a big conference where the keynote speaker had an intro that just reeked of overt masculinity - look at me, I'm a hero who will show you all the truth. I walked out. I've heard that shit a million times before, he had nothing new or interesting to say.
That's awesome. It takes the wind out of their sails a bit if you don't accept that behaviour as "default expert guy" and actually point out that it's quite dickish.

OP never asked for a solution. She asked for opinions, and feedback.

Which she got.

Are only people who agree with the OP allowed to give their opinions then?

I would love to see your posts if a man wrote the OP but about women.

Now, perhaps I've been unlucky, and I need to just get over all of this. I'm entirely happy to be told this! smile And I'm happy to be told that this isn't normal, and I should seek help for this too.

I think this part of the OP is clearly asking for opposing views so what exactly have we done wrong by giving our opposing views?