I've realised that I just don't like men very much...

[SandAndSnow]

And I wanted to talk through it a bit, if that's ok. I hope this is the right place.

I'm sitting on a train next to a terrible man spreader so I'm feeling a bit raged at the moment, but it's also made me realise that I increasingly tend to treat men with caution and, if I'm honest, dislike.

I'm in my early thirties, have been sexually assaulted by 3 different boys/men, had a truly awful experience with a bullying (male) obstetrician, my father is an emotionally and at times physically abusive bully and I've been passed over for promotion in favour of a younger and less well qualified colleague by a male boss. As well as all the regular crap like street harassment, manspreading etc. I'm happily married, and I have a couple of male friends, but I'm generally much more comfortable and happy in the company of other women.

Now, perhaps I've been unlucky, and I need to just get over all of this. I'm entirely happy to be told this! And I'm happy to be told that this isn't normal, and I should seek help for this too.

But I wonder if other women feel the same, and that this is actually a rational response to the experiences which I've had?

The original premise of the thread was not simply about preferring female company, it's in the OP, it's about disliking men. One of the things that draws women to men is sexual attraction, that was why I raised it. Avoiding men, or not liking men would mean celibacy to me

04/02/2019 14:03 SandAndSnow

And I wanted to talk through it a bit, if that's ok. I hope this is the right place.

I'm sitting on a train next to a terrible man spreader so I'm feeling a bit raged at the moment, but it's also made me realise that I increasingly tend to treat men with caution and, if I'm honest, dislike.

I'm in my early thirties, have been sexually assaulted by 3 different boys/men, had a truly awful experience with a bullying (male) obstetrician, my father is an emotionally and at times physically abusive bully and I've been passed over for promotion in favour of a younger and less well qualified colleague by a male boss. As well as all the regular crap like street harassment, manspreading etc. I'm happily married, and I have a couple of male friends, but I'm generally much more comfortable and happy in the company of other women.

Now, perhaps I've been unlucky, and I need to just get over all of this. I'm entirely happy to be told this! smile And I'm happy to be told that this isn't normal, and I should seek help for this too.

But I wonder if other women feel the same, and that this is actually a rational response to the experiences which I've had?

I increasingly tend to treat men with caution and, if I'm honest, dislike.

Struggling with your point really.

You agree people are allowed to protect themselves by staying away from a group that harms them.

You keep saying just don't into relationships with men then, precisely what many women have said they won't do.

And yet you seem quite annoyed by it all?

Yet another thread turned into a pity party for the poor men. Jesus are you all for real? While you are all on here worrying about the man in the car park, or the hypothetical hurt man in the street, actual men are out there killing their partners, raping women, beating up other men for being too much like women... They HATE us

They HATE us

All of them? As one big lump massed together as one person and one mind?
This thread is reminding me of the Liam Neeson one a bit, I find it all the same kind of mindset - one hurt me or someone I know so I'll just go after any of them mentality
That's my take on it anyway and I don't think that's alright

Avoid = go after?

I actually think the grooming gangs point is a pretty valid one. Some races are disproportionately overrepresented in crime figures so why shouldn't class analysis be applied to them too?

*What kind of society would we live in if we make everyone pay for the transgressions of others? I gave a woman £1 that she was short for her shopping but should I have thought "stuff that. My bank cards were stolen and used by a Surely that's not a normal reaction though? To not give someone a car park ticket because he's likely to be a rapist, a serial cheater etc etc?

What kind of society would we live in if we make everyone pay for the transgressions of others? I gave a woman £1 that she was short for her shopping but should I have thought "stuff that. My bank cards were stolen and used by a woman so this woman could be the same?"

This, it's no world I want to live in where we all just took that attitude and stopped giving a shit about others
Depressing thought

SandAndSnow

I am sorry you were not able to talk your OP through more, and I am really sorry that you had those experiences.

stupid quote thing balls up ffs lol

"Perhaps you didn't say that, so apologies, but plenty posters did say it. If you did want sex with a man, what sort of self respecting guy is going to stick around with a woman who does not like men "

Plenty of men have sex with women, despite hating them and plenty of women stick around knowing they're hated. It happens.

Struggling with your point really

So I gather. The solution to the OPs problem is obviously celibacy, so good for you that you have chosen that route. Presumably you believe that men are missing out on some benefit here due to their shittyness ?

I'm failing to understand how a bunch of women saying in effect "I don't like men either, and here's why" is much of a point either.

Well I started off not liking men very much, but then I read the thread with all the people telling women off and ridiculing them for not liking men very much, and the arguments were so compelling that now I've had my mind changed and I really like men now.

Oh dear.

If you cared about the OP, you would have seen she is happily married. Not sure why you have decided she needs to be celibate?

"Presumably you believe that men are missing out on some benefit here due to their shittyness ?"

I can see the disconnect now, you thought women made the choice to avoid men to punish men?!

I know this is a radical idea but it's nothing to do with men and how it makes them feel. It's about the woman choosing how she wants to live,given everything she has experienced. Yes, that's right it about the woman

The point of the conversation, in feminism chat, was women talking to each about their lives.

You really, really don't seem to like that.

Goodnight

The point of the conversation, in feminism chat, was women talking to each about their lives. You really, really don't seem to like that.

This. I actually feel a bit queasy to think about the sheer effort some women will go to, to stop women merely discussing something that they want to discuss. Not throwing down a gauntlet, not setting out a manifesto for life, just simply discussing.

It reminds me of how when women want to discuss not feeling happy being in a changing room when a man's there, they all wade in with "Oh, you're so uptight, I don't care who sees me naked because I'm such an open-minded free spirit and I have no hang-ups about my body, and lots of men are so nice and cute..." Why? Why join in when it's obviously not a conversation for them?

So it turns out that the new point of this thread was for Sheelala to go "yeah well men don't care that you don't want to have sex with them anyway"? How fascinating.

I actually think the grooming gangs point is a pretty valid one. Some races are disproportionately overrepresented in crime figures so why shouldn't class analysis be applied to them too?

Class analysis is applied to race too. There are many complex reasons why some races might be over represented in certain crime statistics.

But that’s not what we are talking about here, we are talking about men.

And to say ‘well if we’re going to segregate by sex we may as well segregate by race’ is disingenuous whataboutary.

MEN commit the vast amount to violent crime regardless of race.

I'm not stopping you discussing anything. My "avoid men and be celibate then" advice wasn't just aimed at the OP, it's more aimed at posters like you.

However you are right, she did say she was married so I apologise for that. I'm reminded of Graham Chapman in a monty python sketch as a hunter saying "i love animals, that's why I like to kill 'em" or in this case "I dislike men, that's why I married one"

I consider my self a feminist but this thread has really disappointed me. It has it all, women wishing they were lesbians, teachers who do not like men and are unrepentant about it. Imagine a proud misogynist teaching girls.

No one has given her any "advice" at all, all they've done is attempt to reinforce her feelings by saying it's fine and that I feel the same way. So it's not even recognised as an issue. The focus has been on removing the OPs guilt by sharing stories to further justify hostility towards men. You might think my advice is bad, but let's face it, it's better than to exacerbate it, which is what you have tried your best to do.

Stop the press!
Someone who considers themselves a feminist in horrified to hear some women are tired of the patriarchy shocker.

Well, you know, "identify as" is popular these days.

I never said anything about segregation by race, I was inquiring why it is not a criteria in the threat analysis you perform given you seem to be all about that. I didn't mention segregation once.

Im not prepared to get into an argument with you about who's the real feminist, but I will say feminism does exist to justify disliking men.

I don’t ‘perform’ an analysis.

The analysis is men commit the most violent crime, so women deserve a space away from them.

Well, you know, "identify as" is popular these days.

Ah do I not get to be in your club because I don't have a general distaste for men ? How entirely unsurprising.

The analysis is men commit the most violent crime, so women deserve a space away from them.

I'm not sure what you are even on about now because I entirely agree with this statement. That doesn't change the fact that you will come into contact with men and groups of men when not in one of these spaces and .... oh this is pointless.

good night.

So if you agree why bring up race and ask why we don’t use that as an analysis too?

We’ve already said because even if we split the pudding by race it’s still men of that race committing the vast majority of the crimes.

If you agree with that why are you still banging the drum?
We aren’t allowed to discuss being exhausted by male violence because race? Because it upsets men? Because we all must be celibate?