I've realised that I just don't like men very much...

[SandAndSnow]

And I wanted to talk through it a bit, if that's ok. I hope this is the right place.

I'm sitting on a train next to a terrible man spreader so I'm feeling a bit raged at the moment, but it's also made me realise that I increasingly tend to treat men with caution and, if I'm honest, dislike.

I'm in my early thirties, have been sexually assaulted by 3 different boys/men, had a truly awful experience with a bullying (male) obstetrician, my father is an emotionally and at times physically abusive bully and I've been passed over for promotion in favour of a younger and less well qualified colleague by a male boss. As well as all the regular crap like street harassment, manspreading etc. I'm happily married, and I have a couple of male friends, but I'm generally much more comfortable and happy in the company of other women.

Now, perhaps I've been unlucky, and I need to just get over all of this. I'm entirely happy to be told this! And I'm happy to be told that this isn't normal, and I should seek help for this too.

But I wonder if other women feel the same, and that this is actually a rational response to the experiences which I've had?

BUT do I think every single male I meet is bad?

No one has said that.

In the same way as some people recoil from my soppy golden retriever minding his own business, tarring him with the same brush as a snarling pit bull.

If all violent men were snarling pit bulls, and all men that acted like soppy golden retrievers were harmless we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

Unfortunately violent men often appear lovely at the beginning.

If someone said ‘I find dogs off putting, some of them are violent and some of them jump up without asking and don’t listen to no, this make me feel nervous. I don’t wish them any harm and I’m sure there are some lovely dogs but I’d rather just hang out with cats if I’m honest’. Would that be acceptable to you?

Yes.

I think it's fine but most heterosexual women are going to want male company..that's going to be tough if you don't speak to men. Of course if you are happy being celibate, then there's no issue with it at all.

Grooming gangs are horrendous but that doesn’t mean Asian men are more of a danger to children than white men. Look at the Catholic Church, look at the bbc, look at the hundreds of thousands of men who download child pornography every year.

When 96% of sex crimes against children are committed by Asian men then maybe you can make the comparison.

It’s men who are a risk to children, it doesn’t matter on their race.

Calvinsmam

But the statistic is simply because white men are the majority. If you look beyond that one can question whether there is more of a chance an Asian man is a risk than a white man surely ? Unless you think that there is something fundamentally wrong with profiling groups of people as part of a risk assessment.

We can see you think you have a clever gotcha, but the common denominator in grooming gangs is that they are male.

The common denominator in dog attacks is dogs.

sheel

What are you banging on about?

There is no evidence at all that Asian men commit sexual crimes against children any more than white men do. If I humour you and pretend that there is, it is still not in any way similar to how much men commit violent crime more than women.

It was you who brought the race thing up.

Acknowledging that men commit more violence isn’t ‘profiling’ it’s just having eyes.

However you split up the demographic it will always be the male people who commit more violence than the female people.

The common denominator in dog attacks is dogs.

Yes that’s our point, looks like you’ve finally got it.

A convent isn't safe either:

Pope admits clerical abuse of nuns including sexual slavery
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47134033

It's virtually impossible to avoid all men unless you own and live on an island of women or by yourself and get supplies dropped so there's no chance of coming into contact with a man.

Most of us don't wish to avoid them completely but have chosen not to have relationships with me in order to protect ourselves because experience has taught us this is necessary.

Well I don't agree that is not similar. It as a risk assessment. I also did not claim that women commit as much violence as men do.

But anyways, having a husband and male friends while contending most men are shit or that most women share this view is a bit nutty in my view.

As I say for heterosexual women this means a life of celibacy which is, as unfortunate as you might find it, enough to ensure you will always be in a very small minority (I don't think this thread is a balanced sample).

I feel increasingly like this. I hate the entitlement, the innate sense of (misplaced) superiority, the ease with which they can go through life being mediocre and women have to be on their A Game all the time (and be expected to fucking smile all the time).

I hate them sitting next to me on public transport, overspilling into MY space. I hate them interrupting me, talking over me, affecting the way I dress and the places I go in case I draw unwanted attention - although I have been in a tatty anorak and had the same hassles.

I hate the fact that they don't seem to have to try at work, they don't do something, it's okay. They end up getting promoted even when they are not as good as a woman colleague. Women are told it's not okay when they make a mistake, they are expected to put it right. Guys seem to have others clearing up after them and clearing the way.

I hate the fact that other women treat men differently in the workplace. They immediately look at men when they interrupt a woman, rendering the woman who was speaking as unimportant/invisible. Or they say "Bless" when a man doesn't do something, but moan about women in the same scenario.

I have worked with a lot of left wing, Guardian, right on men in the past. On the surface all very PC and on message. I have also heard their puerile chat about women when they think they can't be heard. And it never stops, whatever age they are, on and on.

I am married. He does more than his share of housework, never has to be asked, but he is just a bloke with some casual misogyny that reveals itself sometimes. I would not bother seeking another relationship if this one ended.

"There is no evidence at all that Asian men commit sexual crimes against children any more than white men do."

I think the original point was about grooming gangs, and it is true that the vast majority of the perpetrators (84% accoding to a Quillam report) are from the Pakistani community, and the vast majority of victims are young, white girls. The Pakistani community represent 2% of the UK population, so 1% are male, which means that they are disproportionately involved in this type of crime.

www.economist.com/britain/2018/10/25/is-grooming-children-for-sex-a-disproportionately-asian-crime

I think the original point was about grooming gangs,

Yeah but we weren’t talking about grooming gangs. We were talking about segregating by race because one race commits more violence than another.
It is irrelevant if more grooming gangs are Asian, that is one type of crime and doesn’t make an Asian man more likely to be violent to a child than a white man.

She brought grooming gangs up for no reason.

I didn't bring it up for no reason at all I brought it up as a statistic that could be used to make a risk assessment. Which is what you are doing.

But anyway, I think the other point is that men are unlikely to be crying themselves.to sleep because you don't want to have sex with them, and your position will always be a minority one. It doesn't say a lot about the men in your life.

But it would be a ridiculous way to make a risk assessment, as it would be meaningless because grooming gangs are not the only way children are groomed and raped by men and therefore don’t prove that Asian men are more of a risk to children than white men.

However whichever way you cut the pudding males are across the board more violent than females therefore it’s perfecty reasonable to bear this in mind when drawing up safeguarding.
The advice you would give a teenage girl to avoid men who might groom her would be the same if they were Asian or white.
Be wary of older men who are in places where teenagers hang out, don’t accept alcohol off men, don’t go up to men’s flats and speak to a trusted adults about any relationships you might be having.
You don’t need to put the race in there, white and Asian men both groom girls.

Where have I said I don’t want to have sex with men? Where have I said that I hate all men and don’t want to hang out with a single one?

My position is that I rather like men but I get weary of discovering the misogyny in men I thought were good eggs, so I find myself more drawn to hanging out with women these days.
It’s hardly an extreme position no matter how much you try to project onto it.

You don’t need to put the race in there

Well, thankfully the police and politicians don't agree with you anymore either.

Where have I said I don’t want to have sex with men

Perhaps you didn't say that, so apologies, but plenty posters did say it. If you did want sex with a man, what sort of self respecting guy is going to stick around with a woman who does not like men

It seems you are more invested in telling women they are wrong than doing anything about male violence.

The police and politicians (not counting Tommy Robinson and the like) do not think an Asian man is more of a risk of committing a sexual crime against a child than a white man. That’s a ridiculous statement.

But even if it was true don’t worry because Asian men aren’t allowed into female only spaces either.

Hmmm. Funny I thought raising a polite and respectful young lad was a decent thing to do. Perhaps I should join the police or the prison service ? Maybe drone on about how crap men are on the internet daily ? Encourage young women not to have relationships with men ? Cos thats gonna work.

What do you do user to combat male violence ? On the front line are you ? Truncheoning rapists ?

do not think an Asian man is more of a risk of committing a sexual crime against a child than a white man

They have identified a specific problem actually, I know you like to think all men from every region of the world are equal opportunity misogynists but there is plenty evidence that is not the case. If you open your eyes that is.

I find that generally I don't like people male or female. Misogyny is crap and I've experienced it from men and women. Ageism is also crap and I've reached an age where I'm experiencing that too. People are less likely to be overtly sexist in the workplace these days because they are aware of the consequences but people are still happy to make discriminatory ageist comments and these comments come from both sexes.

They have identified a specific problem actually,

Yes which is grooming gangs, however this is not the only way children in Britain are abused, groomed or assaulted by men.

I know you like to think that there isn’t an epidemic of sexual abuse against children in Britain, including the trade and downloading of images of abused children, which is a specific thing that the police have pointed out. But it’s there if you open your eyes.

Child grooming gangs are horrific and we need to tackle them but they only make up a tiny part of the picture.

And also this derailment is entirely unnecessary.

We both know that sex segregation is a far better way to keep women and children safe than race segregation, you’ve said yourself men commit the most violent crime.

So this is just whatsboutary.

shee you keep bringing up sex. It's odd.

The original premise of the thread was is it unreasonable to feel more comfortable in female company?

I don't think any of us have said we hate all men and they cry themselves to sleep as we won't have sex with them.

Although, interesting that you do keep bringing that up as I have encountered men who seemed very put out that I didn't want to have sex with them. To the point of not listening to my opinion on the matter.

I cannot fathom what motivates you to keep twisting what the women here are saying.