I've realised that I just don't like men very much...

[SandAndSnow]

And I wanted to talk through it a bit, if that's ok. I hope this is the right place.

I'm sitting on a train next to a terrible man spreader so I'm feeling a bit raged at the moment, but it's also made me realise that I increasingly tend to treat men with caution and, if I'm honest, dislike.

I'm in my early thirties, have been sexually assaulted by 3 different boys/men, had a truly awful experience with a bullying (male) obstetrician, my father is an emotionally and at times physically abusive bully and I've been passed over for promotion in favour of a younger and less well qualified colleague by a male boss. As well as all the regular crap like street harassment, manspreading etc. I'm happily married, and I have a couple of male friends, but I'm generally much more comfortable and happy in the company of other women.

Now, perhaps I've been unlucky, and I need to just get over all of this. I'm entirely happy to be told this! And I'm happy to be told that this isn't normal, and I should seek help for this too.

But I wonder if other women feel the same, and that this is actually a rational response to the experiences which I've had?

So we have moved on from “ its a man’s right to beat his wife to keep her in line “ to “ dont get involved in other people’s relationships” and “there’s two sides to every story “.

How very modern and forward thinking.

Is it maybe the case the guy told them his girlfriend made it up because she is out to get him

No, not at all. There was an incident at a party where he pulled her downstairs by her hair and slapped her in front of everyone.
At the time a couple of the lads pulled him off her and one of them punched him and they frog marched him home.

She later told us it had been going on for years.

They intervened when they saw it happen but are reluctant to cut him out.

That is shocking if they actually saw him do it. How do they justify it ? I wonder if they think she should just get over it ? I suppose if it were two of the men who had a fight they wouldn't ostracise one of them probably, but this is different because it's a woman. What does your husband say ?

Sorry I spelled your name wrong Calvinsmam!

Is it maybe the case the guy told them his girlfriend made it up because she is out to get him ?

Unless she had a face covered in cuts and bruises or was caught red-handed, he almost definitely did say something along those lines. Don't they all? All abusive men are just misunderstood with crazy bitch ex-girlfriends who hate them for no good reason.

Oh oops crossposted. Wow what a bunch of absolute shits.

Does she know they still have him in the WhatsApp? If you are all still friends as a big group?

It's interesting that anecdotes about men behaving badly are lapped up as further supporting evidence, whereas anecdotes about men being supportive, or women behaving badly are dismissed as "not my Nigel" or "whataboutery".

Well, I have to agree with this. Women who don't like men, stay away from them and don't be surprised when peoples backs get up when you say "men are cunts by and large". Hate corrodes the vessel it is in and all that.

It seems to be the case that being a feminist ally would involve a man accepting that most men are shit. Growing up with such a message and contempt for your peers sounds decidedly unhealthy for a young man.

Not that I think it would a healthy message for a young woman either, it's also one they don't seem to be taking on board thankfully.

This is the sort of thing I would much prefer to see in schools etc (rather than the woman-hating Stonewall). Michael Conroy is well worth a follow on twitter:
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/michael-conroy/men-lets-get-out-of-the-m_b_6880450.html

deydododatdodontdeydo

Twas ever thus on here.

Calvinsmam

And you are all still friends? Seriously? What did the women in the group do when they saw this? Who called the police?

This isn't a men's problem for the men to sort out. This is society's problem and every single member of society is responsible for sorting it out.

What does your husband say?

Well he tells me he thinks it’s terrible but he’s definitely in the ‘lads’ WhatsApp group and though he has distanced himself he still goes to the football etc with him.

Does she know they still have him in the WhatsApp? If you are all still friends as a big group?

Yeah she does, they aren’t exactly shy about it.

I think it’s awful because it makes the girls feel awkward too, like it’s them who are the problem, and why can’t they just get over it and we could all just be like we were before.

And you are all still friends? Seriously? What did the women in the group do when they saw this? Who called the police?

They were never my friends, they are my husbands friends, I hang out with them at parties and suchlike but they aren’t my main friends.
I’m still friends with her though and I have no issue at all with any of the girls. Why would I?

No one called the police because she didn’t want us to, though we did try to.

The women did what was right and stopped hanging out with him, it’s the men who continued, so yes it is the men’s problem to sort out.

I don't think I have ever said 'by and large all men are cunts'. I don't hate. I just don't look away from the facts in front of me anymore and I make choices based on them.

So, yes I would help a man. No I don't want a relationship with one. Yes I am wary of men as a group.

Weetabix you have been given a scenario where the man has assaulted a women repeatedly.
The women have made it clear it's not acceptable, the men have looked the other way. Yet, this is still societies problem to sort out? Really?

OP, in answer to your original question, no YANBU to be more comfortable in the company of women.

I think most people are more comfortable hanging out with their own sex ? Men are no different. That's not really what's being discussed, it's heterosexual people avoiding men or women and deciding not to have relationships with the opposite sex because they don't like them. Again, for those people there is nothing wrong with that but it's not all that healthy. There is a massive amount of cognitive dissonance going on for those who have husbands and still say "I don't like men". I certainly would not be friends with a man who thought my mates, my mum, my daughter my big sister etc were not pleasant. Because that is what it boils down to despite the abstract get out of "oh I means as class". A lot of men try to justify misogyny by saying I had bad experiences with women and they're all the same.

BertandRussel
The stats show that black men are much more likely to use violence. Is that something women and men should take into account when they encounter people of colour ? Or would you say that is racist ? If you acknowledge the fact are that as a racial class, they are apparently more violent ? Wouldnt that be wrong ?

I think most people are more comfortable hanging out with their own sex

I’m not sure that’s true, there’s loads and loads of women who say they prefer the company of men, and my husband has about 90% female friends to male.

I don’t think it’s really about ‘not liking men’ because obviously they do if they are married to one.

It’s that moment when you start seeing quite how ingrained misogyny is and you lose your tolerance for it, which can make relationships difficult.

It’s exhausting and I think it’s important women can feel like they can talk about and name the beast.

There is no need to justify.

I have not taken my bad experiences with men to mean I can be violent to them or hate them etc. I simply don't want a relationship with one and I prefer women's company.

The OP post was about exactly that so it is what is being discussed.

You need to understand that the women here are saying I will avoid men, that's it.

Men who don't like women are widespread and I wish the way they channeled their dislike was to avoid rather than harass, belittle, attack and rape.

Whatever you do you cannot get around the facts. No one seems keen to take up the discussion of the 96%. I can understand that, it's hard to argue against.

The stats show that black men are much more likely to use violence.

But if split by race guess who’d still be committing the most violence? Men.

If you split it by hair colour? Men
If you split it by regional accent? Men
If you split it by shoe size? Men

“The stats show that black men are much more likely to use violence. ”
Do they?

Well they are disproportionately imprisoned for it, especially in the US. Do you not notice this ? But the question is whether you use those statistics to shape your behaviour towards a class of people or not ?

which can make relationships difficult.

I bet it can, so why bother ?

I wonder if anyone might have any theory as to why black men are more likely than men of other races to be imprisoned for most crimes in the US.

(Hint - it's not necessarily because they're statistically more likely to commit those crimes.)

and I wish the way they channeled their dislike was to avoid

Unfortunately it is, by excluding them, not employing them, not wanting women in their clubs or involved in their hobbies etc. I would have thought most women do not want to see this.

Weetabix you have been given a scenario where the man has assaulted a women repeatedly.
The women have made it clear it's not acceptable, the men have looked the other way. Yet, this is still societies problem to sort out? Really?

Then men didn't look the other way did they? They pulled him off and one punched him.

How did the women make it clear it wasn't acceptable?

The fact that the men are still friends with him now is disgusting and no way would I be part of a friendship group where that was tolerated. I would also be taking a long hard look at my husband and whether he was the man I thought he was.

The whole group are letting that man think that what he did was ok, whether by their action or inaction.

The women can't absolve themselves of their passivity by saying that it's for the men to sort out.