I've realised that I just don't like men very much...

[SandAndSnow]

And I wanted to talk through it a bit, if that's ok. I hope this is the right place.

I'm sitting on a train next to a terrible man spreader so I'm feeling a bit raged at the moment, but it's also made me realise that I increasingly tend to treat men with caution and, if I'm honest, dislike.

I'm in my early thirties, have been sexually assaulted by 3 different boys/men, had a truly awful experience with a bullying (male) obstetrician, my father is an emotionally and at times physically abusive bully and I've been passed over for promotion in favour of a younger and less well qualified colleague by a male boss. As well as all the regular crap like street harassment, manspreading etc. I'm happily married, and I have a couple of male friends, but I'm generally much more comfortable and happy in the company of other women.

Now, perhaps I've been unlucky, and I need to just get over all of this. I'm entirely happy to be told this! And I'm happy to be told that this isn't normal, and I should seek help for this too.

But I wonder if other women feel the same, and that this is actually a rational response to the experiences which I've had?

Let's face it...men are quite comfortable expressing their dislike of women! It's all around us. We don't have to go too far to find examples but wehave numbed ourself to it.
My DB speaks and behaves in the most blood chilling way about women. To the point I think k he feels persecuted in his head. Compelled and repelled and he sound deranged sometimes but no one would pull him on it. He is free to speak as he wishes. The blokes sniggering with him and the women too physically scared of him to protest.
When will it change?

I don't think men dislike women. I think they are confused about 'how to be' around them. Bernard's anecdote "that stupid expression of bafflement" when she shouted at the lad for groping her. Boys still seem to grow up thinking that they are obliged to hit on women.

Generally, when people meet each other there is a general 'getting to know you' process as you decide whether to spend more time together. When one is a man and the other a woman, that seems to go by the by as men feel obliged to show their desire to get to know you more by grabbing at you or making gross comments.

So the DV, rape, murdeenofwomen is all a misunderstanding?
Cos the boys feel awkward?

I don't think men dislike women.

Some of them certainly do, I've no doubts about that. Fortunately Ive only come across a few like that. However I think if you have had bad experiences that colour your perception of men in general then it is perfectly sensible and advisable to avoid them as much as is practical. There is no need to seek out a relationship with one.

I think men (in general) feel something negative towards women.

Look at the men from Warwick university.

They thought it was a private chat and they happily shared their thoughts on raping and torturing those women. NB that one of the women spoken about has said she counted the men as her friends.

As well as the constant fear of violence - I've got to the point where the low level stuff is just too much for me now.
The bloke who fitted a door that leaks, didn't turn up when he said he would and then said 'we're going to fall out' because I was pissed off about it.
The male friend who told me 'what feminism needs to concentrate on is...'
The mansplaining from a man who has known me most of my life about an area that I'm an expert in.
The constant knowledge that not playing their game is going to get the switch to unpleasantness.
The fact that so few men are taking an interest in this terrible threats to women's rights, or even to free speech - because it doesn't directly affect them.

I think the main thing I get from this thread (apart from the depressing confirmation that some people will perform insane mental gymnastics to defend ‘their Nigels’) is that we are scared. And we are exhausted and bored from being scared all the time.

All the men I know and have in my life are nice.

But I don't really like men much as a group, either.

All the problems in the world boil down to men. All the bad things that happen in the world are inevitably caused by men, and their incapability to not be violent and cruel.

On an individual level, men are a threat to both women and men, i.e. all humans. On a social level, it's men that go to war with each other. Men that hunt, poach and capture animals.

There are good men out there, thank God. But there are far too many men that the world would simply be better off without.

If only boys were socialised to be more like girls, I don't think we would face as many issues as we do.

Men that hunt, poach and capture animals.
There are just no words.

I agree with the op.
I was shopping the other day after I'd been to the gym and on 2 separate occasions felt the need to stare back at men who were staring at me.
I've no idea what they were staring at other than the fact that they are men and so feel entitled to state at women. Both were with women and I thought you know what I'm sick of this so I started right back in a 'what the duck are you looking at' way until they moved along.
Make entitlement is everywhere.
The last time I flew I had a manspreader day next to me. He wasn't fat but he invaded my space had his legs spread wide, both his arms in both arm rests.

Don't know what to do next time this happens as I really don't like it.

There are just no words.

There are plenty of words. So just because some women hunt, you think it negates the wider point that men, as a group, are violent to pretty much everything they come into contact with?

I don't really care if you're offended by my sweeping generalisation.

I just think most men are dirty entitled gits tbh.
Worries me now my DD is 12🙄
So many examples on here of their arrogance.
Plus the oldest, ugliest, most pompous, conceited actually think they are in with a chance with lovely (much younger, maybe underage) women. Sadly, many women don't know how valuable they are so the assumption perpetuates itself and so it goes on...🙄

Oh god, here we go again

Come now weetabix don't make promises you won't keep

Don't engage. Don't engage. Please don't engage.

If this thread is anything to go by he won't het a chance to show that he's a decent man though because people have already decided that there are no decent ones.
Absolutely not true. Pretty much everyone commenting here about this has come to that conclusion after being shown it by a man (or men) they initially thought of as a decent guy. All those men had the benefit of doubt initially, and blew it by their words or actions. So if you want to be thought of as a decent guy, behave like one! Not that hard, surely.

I think the problem partly is that on an individual level men don't care if some women dont like men, it doesn't matter to them, why would it ?

If this thread is anything to go by he won't het a chance to show that he's a decent man though because people have already decided that there are no decent ones.

Actually, I meet everyone with an open mind. I don't go into anything with preconceived ideas of a person.

However, I'm always disappointed. Some men reveal it in the first meeting, others not until you've known them for a couple of years - colleauges, partners, friends, friends' partners... I'm more than happy to meet and allow in 'decen't men. They just seem to be very few in number.

The fact that so few men are taking an interest in this terrible threats to women's rights, or even to free speech - because it doesn't directly affect them.
Agree, specifically after realizing that dh (a long term advocate for gay rights, mostly male) was all for the most extreme demands in the current trans issue, unable to process the facts that women's rights are being trampled on, despite me explaining much of it to him. Wasn't interested. I got accused of all sorts.

I really don't understand how he can make such a big thing about the rights of everyone else, while totally failing to consider the rights of women as a whole when they are counter to those of a small group of biological males. Just another aspect of being a selfish male himself, I guess.

(completely not an anti trans post, but I don't believe the rights of the few trump the rights of the many, when alternatives could be found)

Actually, I meet everyone with an open mind. I don't go into anything with preconceived ideas of a person

Seem to be plenty of posters on here who don't.

I always give people the benefit of the doubt. It's called hope over experience.

I think I am a pretty typical 50 year old woman and my experiences include but are not exclusively being followed home from a park age 16 by 3 boys demanding I let them feel my tits, flashed at several times, upskirted by someone I thought was a friend and who left the picture on a public notice board (hilarious), locked in a taxi by a fat middle aged Spanish taxi driver until I kissed him at the age of 19, cat called too many times to mention when younger...I could go on and on

And yet I still got married, still hoped for the best until he fucked off abroad with OW leaving me with DC, there was never even any thought for the fact I might want to swan off and not be the default parent.

So yes I am struggling to see what benefit a man would bring to my life other than financial it's been prescious little up to now. I struggle with it sometimes as have 2 DS and am trying to educate them in feminism without making them feel bad about being male, it's a tricky balance.

This thread has moved on by 10+ pages since I last checked. Does it get any more interesting, or is it just another hundred rounds of "don't ever blame men for anything, women are shit too, also how dare you"? Cause that's not very interesting.

Sorry your thread got hijacked, OP.

@AngryAttackKittens it's mainly Weetabixandshreddies sprouting whatsboutery and intelligent posters providing evidence to support that male violence is a huge problem.

I'm sorry too OP as you've created a great thread that so many of us have identified with. We don't hate all men, we don't even hate most men; we simply dislike and distrust them due the behaviour of most of the men we have known. We want to believe there are good men out there but experience has taught us otherwise.

Thanks for the summary! No need to trawl through it, then.

Sorry again, OP. Hopefully there were at least a few responses that gave you what you needed.