I've realised that I just don't like men very much...

[SandAndSnow]

And I wanted to talk through it a bit, if that's ok. I hope this is the right place.

I'm sitting on a train next to a terrible man spreader so I'm feeling a bit raged at the moment, but it's also made me realise that I increasingly tend to treat men with caution and, if I'm honest, dislike.

I'm in my early thirties, have been sexually assaulted by 3 different boys/men, had a truly awful experience with a bullying (male) obstetrician, my father is an emotionally and at times physically abusive bully and I've been passed over for promotion in favour of a younger and less well qualified colleague by a male boss. As well as all the regular crap like street harassment, manspreading etc. I'm happily married, and I have a couple of male friends, but I'm generally much more comfortable and happy in the company of other women.

Now, perhaps I've been unlucky, and I need to just get over all of this. I'm entirely happy to be told this! And I'm happy to be told that this isn't normal, and I should seek help for this too.

But I wonder if other women feel the same, and that this is actually a rational response to the experiences which I've had?

but my advice would be not to let the parents know especially the dads.

Thanks for your advice on my successful profession for the last 15 years.

ScipioAfricanus

Are you really sure that you don't show any bias?

Interesting that you like teaching mixed sex classes. Would you prefer teaching only girls?

I still don't understand why in general women who do not like men should have or seek relationships with them. I think avoiding them totally, seems fine advice if you have these views.

I think it's likely you don't understand because you're not really attempting to. You're just hoiking up judgey pants and pouring scorn on women who are daring to admit their vulnerabilities and experiences. It probably feels great or you wouldnt be doing it, but it's not going to help you understand.

Are you really sure that you don't show any bias?

Have you ever asked this of a male teacher?

Have you ever asked this of a male teacher?

I've never heard a male teacher express the views that are being expressed on here. If I did, then I would do a lot more than ask him a question.

Does that answer your question?

Do you think male teachers in general treat their male and female students equally? Especially in STEM subjects?

I’ve tried teaching all girls and I don’t like that as much as mixed sex classes.

I don’t show any bias because I don’t treat the boys I teach as their sex class. I treat them as individuals. I’m married to a lovely man (Not my Nigel!) and I have a son whom I love as an individual. As I’ve said above, I’m not making friends with them (where I prefer women) or in a position where they have more power than me. The issues I have with the way men operate as a sex class under the patriarchy don’t come into my teaching of individuals, except insofar as I call out sexism in subject matter and behaviour and I teach more stuff about women than the syllabus requires. Most people would say this is redressing the balance but you could call it prejudice.

I have had more female students tell me they love me than male students but I’ve had enough of the male ones offer to marry me or tell me I’m brilliant to make me feel I haven’t alienated too many boys. Equal numbers of male and female students who have not enjoyed my lessons and/or disliked me, I’d estimate.

Flying

I'm not sure how expressing a dislike for men is admitting a vulnerability ?

Regarding teaching I recently learned how a teacher was telling one of my kids about how gender is a spectrum and how we all fall somewhere on it. I don't like it.

Reading this I decided to sit down and work out how many men I admire and loved in my life.
5 was all I could manage, my son (well naturally I brought him up to be a decent human being), my grandfather and two uncles nad my neighbour who died recently.
They were all well mannered decent human beings who cared about other people.
As for the rest, I usually loathe them all as they are weak willed, cowardly, grown up children.
I'm not yet 60 but decided some time ago that I can't tolerate another relationship and would rather live alone.

I'm not sure how expressing a dislike for men is admitting a vulnerability?

have you read the thread? do you understand why people are expressing dislike and mistrust of men as a class ?

do you understand that they are referring to men as a class ?

Bernard

No, I don't really understand (honestly).

How does dislike of men as a class manifest itself. The class is composed of individual men ? How could someone dislike Muslims as a class but be trusted to treat them fairly ?

What i was saying is that it probably doesn't really matter that much that you don't like men, because it's not difficult to avoid relationships with them etc. Professionally might be a little harder.

but unless you do go to a nunnery Sheelala, it's very hard as a womam to avoid being (metaphorically) shafted by men

so you may be passed over for that promotion because you're of child bearing age

you can't exercise in the way you want to because it's not safe to run in the dark

you sit next to some numpty on the train who has his legs wide open and takes up all your fricking space

not all of these examples are of equal severity, but they are all ways that women are oppressed by living in a sexist society

if that transforms itself into mistrust of men, I think men would do well to ask themselves why rather than get upset about it

Somebody 'manspreading' on a train is "a way women are oppressed" now!? People spread themselves out on trains, and those people are rude and inconsiderate.

Haven't you finished yet Weetabix? This thread has turned into all about you.

Yeah I feel the same. I'm on a long term relationship with a wonderful man but otherwise not fussed on them.

It's true that you cannot avoid all these things of course, but you can avoid getting mixed up with individual men on a personal level. I don't see any problem with that or recommending it if that's your opinion. Infact it would pretty daft when considering all the stuff you cannot escape.

I don't think men are all that upset about it judging by the evidence.

People spread themselves out on trains, and those people are rude and inconsiderate

these rude and inconsiderate people - in your experience do they have any defining characteristics?

they do in mine

I commuted by train for 7 years. I never had a women invade my space in a train seat.

maybe I was just lucky with the women I sat next to?

I mean I get NAWALT

Bernard, if you're thinking men, I don't think you're right.
Haven't you ever seen women spreading bags and stuff all over seats when the train is obviously full?
It may be only men that sit with legs wide apart, but it's not only men that inconsiderately spread themselves out on public transport.

in that case I am mystified by your post at 13:32 Sheelala as that is a course of action that a number of women on this thread have said they take

what's your point again?

I commuted by train for 7 years. I never had a women invade my space in a train seat.

Is this satire? I read a thread on here, a woman said she saw sexual assault on public transport every single day.
I've never seen sexual assault on public transport.
Which of us has the truest experience?

yes, but I wonder why it's only men that feel they can press their leg against me in a train seat, forcing me into the corner to escape unwanted contact deydododatdodontdeydo?

I am talking about my own experience deydododatdodontdeydo, which was the point of this thread until the NAMALT crew arrived

I mean I know NAMALT and women do it too, so I expect half of those groping people on the Japanese metro are women right?

I'm confused now, I thought we were talking about class analysis.
I'm sure I could find a male forum where men are complaining about women spreading their bags around and taking up space.
Is that class analysis or gross generalisation?