I've realised that I just don't like men very much...

[SandAndSnow]

And I wanted to talk through it a bit, if that's ok. I hope this is the right place.

I'm sitting on a train next to a terrible man spreader so I'm feeling a bit raged at the moment, but it's also made me realise that I increasingly tend to treat men with caution and, if I'm honest, dislike.

I'm in my early thirties, have been sexually assaulted by 3 different boys/men, had a truly awful experience with a bullying (male) obstetrician, my father is an emotionally and at times physically abusive bully and I've been passed over for promotion in favour of a younger and less well qualified colleague by a male boss. As well as all the regular crap like street harassment, manspreading etc. I'm happily married, and I have a couple of male friends, but I'm generally much more comfortable and happy in the company of other women.

Now, perhaps I've been unlucky, and I need to just get over all of this. I'm entirely happy to be told this! And I'm happy to be told that this isn't normal, and I should seek help for this too.

But I wonder if other women feel the same, and that this is actually a rational response to the experiences which I've had?

Don't try and back track. You posted a load of codswallop and don't like being called out on it

Why are you so invested in defending men?

You’re splitting hairs over semantics. Okay, perhaps for the sake of your literalism I should have made it clear I was talking generally.

Yes, there are rare occasions where a woman has killed a man because she is a psychopath and a predator.

But OVERWHELMINGLY, when women kill, it is a response to domestic abuse. There is already a link evidencing this posted further up thread, and I will add to that this:
www.justiceforwomen.org.uk/home

FlyingOink

The prevalence of porn does not prove that all men use it.

It's rubbish.

The prevalence of porn does not prove that all men use it.

Who’s using it then?

Scipio

Unless I'm missing something this is not an thread about being a feminist, it is about not liking men and why that is reasonable.

What I'm saying is if you do not like men you should avoid them wherever possible. It doesn't matter whether you can justify it or not, you're always going to see these things.

Teaching boys while being a feminist is fine, teaching boys while having a general dislike or distaste for men is not and I think most parents would share this view.

You’re splitting hairs over semantics. Okay, perhaps for the sake of your literalism I should have made it clear I was talking generally.
I'm not splitting hairs and you made it very clear, because I asked you, that you meant what you said literally.

You then accused me of sophistry!!!!

If anyone was trying to deceive it was you.

when you catch Nigel using Russian dwarf rape porn.
This get's worse

Yoou are free to believe that 100% of men watch porn, and that even men that swear off porn and support each other not to use it don't count.
You'd be wrong, but you can think it.

Who’s using it then?

Mainly men (and some women).

That is not all men

Because I hate the lazy arguments. If your personal experience of men is not good then just state that.
My personal experience is varied. I don't have relationships with men so I don't experience that aspect and all that can go wrong within a relationship.

Why then try to say that all men are like it
Nobody has, the only sweeping statement was made by me. I still believe all men use porn.

I don't want to change anyone's mind.
Handy

But I do want some people to take a good look at themselves
Do you think women as a class are in need of introspection more than men, as a class? Because women do take a good look at themselves. Far too often. Women second-guess themselves, blame themselves, it's a trope but there's a reason for it.
Also, this board is comprised of intelligent women, I'm sure they've taken a good look at themselves plenty of times.

Weetabixandshreddies has a doctorate in whataboutery and their posts just go round and round and round. Their MO is to come on to feminist threads and stick up for the poor men. They will argue persistently and refuse to budge despite evidence to the contrary because "what about" "but women do x, y, z" "but, but, but"

It's both tiresome and damaging to women. The ingrained misogyny is blatant in all posts. Poor wee men folk at the mercy of the evil feminists.

Nobody has, the only sweeping statement was made by me. I still believe all men use porn.

Read back. Yes they have said it.

The prevalence of porn does not prove that all men use it.
That wasn't my argument. My argument was that I have asked, and every man I have asked has admitted to using it. Every one. And I know men of all ages, races, and walks of life.

PerverseConverse

You don't have to engage with me.

I am as entitled to post my view as you are.

Get thee to a nunnery, ladies! That will solve all our problems!

Eh ? It would surely solve many if not most of your problems ?

women! lock yourselves away!

this is by far the most logical response to the structural inequalities you face on the basis of your sex and the fact that many men behave like arseholes

ummmm...really?

Read back. Yes they have said it.
Said what

That wasn't my argument. My argument was that I have asked, and every man I have asked has admitted to using it. Every one. And I know men of all ages, races, and walks of life.

Oh well then case closed. Every man that you have asked has admitted it. Of course then that means that all men have used it.

Every women that I have asked wears lipstick ergo every woman wears lipstick.

Taken from here:

kareningalasmith.com/2015/03/14/sex-differences-and-domestic-violence-murders/

“Combining data for the three years from 2011/12 to 2013/14, the ONS tell us that of 57 men killed in partner/ex-partner homicides, 21 of them, over a third, were killed by a man. Of these 21 men killed by men in the context of partner/ex-partner homicides, 14 of them were killed by a lover’s spouse/love rival. Of 249 women killed in partner/ex-partner homicides over the same 3 years, 247 were killed by a man, one by a woman (in one case the primary suspect is listed as unknown). None of the female victims of partner/ex-partner homicide were killed by the spouse of their lover or an emotional rival. Similarly, no male victims of partner/ex-partner homicide were killed by a female spouse of their lover or a female emotional rival. Not only are men killed in the context of an intimate relationship less likely to be killed by their actual partner or ex-partner, they are much more likely than women to be killed by someone of the same sex.

Another important difference between women and men killed in the context of intimate partner violence is the history of the relationship. When men kill women partners or ex-partners, this usually follows months or years of them abusing her, when women kill male partners or ex-partners, it is usually after months or years of having been abused by the man they have killed. (Browne et al., 1998; Websdale, 1999; Dugan et al., 2003.)”

Well, Shee it’s a thread which has gone in many directions. It’s hard to say if I have a dislike for men in general - I don’t enjoy them, and distrust them in various ways, as a class. I don’t think this affects how I teach boys. The same way as my dislike of Kardashian-style beauty doesn’t affect the way I teach the girls who emulate them. Of course I would think that, wouldn’t I!

Parents also can’t be too picky about teachers the way education is going at the moment - they will be lucky to have someone with a degree teaching their children in a few years, let alone someone with accredited ‘right thinking’. But I digress even further.

Bernard

I'm not saying "lock yourself away" you don't need men to have a full and happy life ?

It's hardly logical to pursue relationships with men when you don't like men is it ?

Overcoming or raising awareness of structural inequalities is a separate issue to how you manage your personal life ?

This feels like some posters have decided this topic is just not allowed.
In shutting down conversation (which they are doing remarkably well) they are only going to make those posters who have lost all faith in men feel even worse.
What could have been a space to discuss how women feel, why they feel it and what that means has turned into NAMALT NAMALT NAMALT what about what about what about.
Which is illuminating in itself.
You know when men online come to the rescue (wanted or unwanted) of a woman online or women in general as discussed as a group online - that man is derided as a "white knight" and it is assumed he's a pathetic specimen by the other men. They wouldn't spend this amount of time and effort engaging with him. Write off the white knight, laugh at him and carry on.

TwitterLovesMAPs

None of that was in question.

Find a study that backs up your assertion that all women who kill men do it to escape abuse. That's the point I was questioning.

The fact is you can't because it isn't true.

Well Scipio all I can say is that I wouldn't want a male teacher educating my daughter (or son) if I knew he wasn't sure if he liked women. It wouldn''t matter how he justifies it, or whether he promised it wouldn't manifest itself.

Agree with your comments about a dearth of teachers sadly.

FlyingOink

Do explain. Are you saying that I'm a man?

Only that never ever happens on here (apparently). Always denied that women are accused of being men simply for posting alternate views. It's happened twice on this thread are you making it a hat trick?

Oh well then case closed. Every man that you have asked has admitted it. Of course then that means that all men have used it.

"It is my sincerely held belief, based on all my life's experience. You disagree, good for you. Change your name before you start a "woe is me" thread when you catch Nigel using Russian dwarf rape porn."

I repeat: you disagree, good for you.

shee if I were teaching then I wouldn't punish boys at all. I simply wouldn't elevate them above the girls because of their sex etc.

Also I really think it's interesting that you are concerned by women who dislike men as a class teaching boys.

I think they will be ok, I am more worried about my girls being taught by the teachers that used to flick the our bra straps and the one that kept me behind to talk about how much my 'rocks' had grown when I was 14.

Oh and also how used my friendship group were to this, we used to stand in the corridor by the door when one of us was kept behind.

I'm not saying "lock yourself away"

Eh ? It would surely solve many if not most of your problems ? [regarding moving to a nunnery]

did your account get hacked?