So it’s happened...

[Beerincomechampagnetastes]

I knew it would and I’ve been dreading how I would deal with it.
My dd has been joined in her female boarding house by a young man called George.
George up until last term was a female.
I’m concerned for George and the pupils are all lovely and he’s getting a lot of support.
But I’m confused as to why he’s in the female boarding house?
Is this normal practice for schools?

I have a son aged 15, he is at a co ed boarding school, we were informed via an article in The Times that a trans boy would be sleeping in the boys section of the boarding house. There are 3 boarding houses, so I'm not 100% sure where this child is, but have a strong feeling they are in my sons boarding house. The school refused to tell me which boarding house this affected (child confidentiality-fair enough) but I did ask was there was now a possibility of my son getting this trans boy pregnant....if they are sleeping unsupervised....School reassured me a full risk assessment had been carried out. I am not overly happy though.I imagine the trans boy has a lock on their door, though how they manage showering etc I don't know. I just feel that boarding school is not the best choice in this instance.

I am happy to use new names, but pronouns are different. She is used for females and he for males. George is still female. Pretending she has changed in to a male by changing her name and possibly school uniform is participating in a big game of "let's pretend" which isn't good for anyone. People converting to Islaam or becoming nuns change their names not their pronouns.

A name isn't an identity though.

Not calling someone their name is of course really rude and unnecessary.

Who you are should he based on something real.

An adoptive mum is legally their mum. And more importantly they have been a mum to that child. And one woykd assume the vast majority are open and honest when the time is right so they can tell that child where they came from.

It's a different senario to asking everyone to pretend some one is not who they actually are. To have their sense of self reliant on everyone being legally compelled to lie to that person. And that person being told that they are something else based on nothing nore than stereo types.

If you were to make the analogy nore realistic it would he like having to pretend that the adoptive mum actuakky gave birth to them .

That kind of lie would have the same dangerous outcomes as this. For instance when it cones to medical issues. If you were to lie about where a child came from and let the Drs rule out diseses as based on the blood tests of the adoptive parents

Most kids these days know families are made up in a variety of ways there's no real gaslighting of others ..

I am happy to use new names, but pronouns are different. She is used for females and he for males. George is still female. Pretending she has changed in to a male by changing her name and possibly school uniform is participating in a big game of "let's pretend" which isn't good for anyone. People converting to Islaam or becoming nuns change their names not their pronouns.
Exactly. My point about names above was very clear, I wanted to know what the psychological effect on the child was. People post all the time about feeling different now they are Mrs Husband, or changed their name because they had a horrible abusive dad, or went back to their birth name after divorce, or didn't, etc etc. It's a big deal, a new name. I wouldn't refuse to use a name, that's like calling a married woman by her birth name because you didn't approve of her husband

A name is a name.
Names need not be sex specific.
In any case, as soon as a girl adopts what she thinks is a boy's name it ceases to be exclusively a boy's name thanks to her wearing it. It becomes a unisex name

So I see less of an issue with that.

The adopted child scenario is such a straw man. If they claimed to be the birth mother I wouldn't go along with that. Of course adoption is valid and of course I would recognise any adoptive parent.
If she claimed to be an adoptive father I'd not accept that though.

In short, names are not sex specific, adoption isn't relevant, pronouns are sex specific, and no, people need not acknowledge other people's identities if they are demonstrably false.

I suppose where I really struggle is because I feel it is so unnecessary.
George should be able to explore their gender identity as should all young people if they want to.
Why can’t they do that without making drastic life changing decisions and why are some adults encouraging this???

Also it should be made clear that young people and children do not and should not be treated as the same as adults who are exploring their gender identity.
They are not the same.

Hi all,
We've made a few (very few, really) deletions on this thread. Just a reminder that civility is key in terms of letting these conversations flow - if you could bear that in mind as the discussion continues we would be very grateful.

OP, you asked me why I am using emotive language?

The thing is, I don't understand what is going on here.

Whenever this subject crops up the main thrust of the argument is always " we have nothing against trans people but they should remain within their birth sex facilities."

So here we are. This pupil is being housed with the girls.

But that isn't good enough. Now the issue is around "forcing collusion" by using male pronouns or some posters saying this trans boy should be with the boys because everyone gets shoved in with the girls.

This trans boy might have asked to go in with the boys and be told no. For all we know, that might be the school pre empting a request from a trans girl and predicting the furore if they put a trans girl in with the girls.

You clearly aren't happy with this situation so what would you be happy with? This child denying their identity in order to placate you? Because I can't see another option. And I don't see how the school can enforce that because this child is presumably protected under the Equalities Act.

Please explain what you would want to happen.

Civility when discussed the assault of a woman in her 60s by a male (is that alright?) person? You are gaslighting, MNHQ.

If they claimed to be the birth mother I wouldn't go along with that

So how would you not go along with that? Would you take it upon yourself to tell the child?

I would like the personal to remain personal and an entire school body not to be forced to be involved in colluding with a lie, Weet.

RiverTam

Well, it's a bit difficult when you are presenting your outward physical appearance to the world isn't it?

It's not like they've had a tattoo or their belly button pierced and you can ask them to keep it covered.

Everyone will see that they are presenting as a male and have changed their name.

Do you want that to go unremarked upon? For the other students to not be informed?

Do you not think that might cause more gossip and intrigue than if the issue is out in the open?

The very premise of "presenting like a boy"
Is down to hair cut and clothes though isn't it?

The problem.is the immediate assumption that anyone dressed like that must be a boy.

Why can't a girl wear those clothes and have short hair and still be a girl

A few years ago they could have .

Now.people go into schools armed with jelly babies and a barbie doll /gi joe and tell them to pick

I’ve made myself perfectly clear on why I posted this thread weet.

I’ve also explained my position several times, I won’t explain myself further to you.

If you ‘don’t understand’, that’s ok. I don’t need or require you to understand.

Thanks everyone for posting.
The different positions on this subject and how it effects our young people and their experience of education is really important to discuss.

An adoptive mum is legally their mum
And some trans people have legally changed gender, whether you believe it or not.

Because, although that might be a dream of things to come, right now the reality is that people would view a girl wearing male clothes (as opposed to women's trousers for example) or boy's school uniform would be making a very clear statement.

Possibly even more so if it were a boy wearing a dress or girl's school uniform.

This would not be unremarkable today, even though we might wish for it to be so and fundamentally this child may well be doing no more than just wearing masculine clothing and using a male name. So where is the problem?

weetwhat has presenting as a male got to do with pronouns? Do we call Boy George or Marilyn 'she'? A butch lesbian 'he'? You don't get much more beautiful and feminine-looking than Fionne Orlander - but he's a he all the way, even to the extent of wearing a T shirt saying it.

Stereotypes do not a man or a woman make.

If someone you knew converted to Islam and took on another name would you refuse to use it because you didn’t believe the same as them?

It's not the name that's the problem here. It's the pronouns (at least, from my POV). I'm happy to call anyone by a new name (or, in the case of those who don't change their name on marriage, to use their original name).
And I would be happy to call anyone by a new name but not to affirm that Islam is the only true way to God.

Would you refuse to call a friend who adopted a child the childs mother even they weren’t biologically there’s?

I am an adoptive parent and I would never want anyone to pretend that I am a biological parent. That would just be bananas. I am legally a parent but not biologically a parent. Sure, I want people to say I'm my DCs' mum, I've undergone the adoption equivalent of getting a GRC (which this child hasn't).

But saying I'm a biological parent is a lie and if I went along to the doctor or the school and said "my DC has inherited XYZ from me" that would be crazy and I would rightly be called out.

I’ve also explained my position several times, I won’t explain myself further to you.

Then I disagree. I don't think you have explained yourself at all, other than displaying a sense of unease about this.

You seem to have not articulated what you want the school to do given that they are doing what you all want them to do anyway.

If your daughter doesn't want to use male pronouns for this pupil why does she have to? If the child is there she can call them by their name. If she's talking to someone else then she can call them by their name. Really, what is the problem?

Everyone will see that they are presenting as a male and have changed their name.

My DD wears trousers to school. She has short hair. Is she presenting as a boy? Or is she a 4yo who won't keep bobbles in her hair and whose mum thinks that it's a huge waste to buy her tights and a skirt - which will only mean she's cold - when we have trousers left over from her older brother?

RiverTam

It's not the clothes per se. It is the meaning attributed to those clothes.

Boy George wears what he wears as a fashion choice.

This child is wearing boy's clothes as a way of expressing their choice to identify as a boy. Surely the other students will notice when Susan now attends lessons wearing a boy's uniform and calls themselves George.

What should the school do? Ban anyone from asking about it or talking to George about it? That's weird in itself surely? That everyone pretends that nothing is happening?

My DD wears trousers to school. She has short hair. Is she presenting as a boy?

No, because she isn't identifying as a boy and also because she isn't wearing a boy's uniform.

At my old school girls could wear a skirt or trousers and a blouse or polo shirt.

The boys wore trousers and a shirt and tie.

If a girl came in wearing trousers, shirt and tie or a boy came in wearing a skirt and blouse then would be expressing something other than simply wearing school uniform wouldn't they? They are making a choice to actively make a statement about themselves.