Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The virtue signalling gillette advert

174 replies

rubyroot · 26/01/2019 17:22

I see myself as a feminist, have done for a while.

My bloke (who is a pretty masculine SAHH) said he found it insulting.

I had a look and thought it wasn't that bad, but then noticed that they put a few decent images of men on and then say some is not enough and then say we need to teach our boys not to be boys.

What I also noticed is that the 'good men' tend to be black and it therefore seems to be focussed on white masculinity- 1 of the 'bad men' is black and 5 of the 'good men' are black... interesting

Anyhow, I was considering the advert and I think it wouldn't be so bad, but then the ' some' part implies that most men are similar to those on the first part of the vid. So it got me thinking about the men I know and I don't know any men like the ones on the ad- at all! It's really not fair on the majority of men, and I am starting to understand why there is a backlash amongst white men who feel that they are being misrepresented.

And yes I will let my son (he's one) do boy things- run around, be active, climb, explore. He will be taught to be masculine as he is a boy and there is a certain biological element there. I want him to be able to provide for himself, nurture his family, treat his girlfriend well and protect her- all those things we see as masculine.

OP posts:
TacoLover · 26/01/2019 18:03

Not all men

GrinGrinGrin

NAMALT indeed.

rubyroot · 26/01/2019 18:03

This is more about body image isn't it and I think that these adverts that promote the perfect women are harmful for young girls who try and live up to this. But- I don't think that women would be slated for complaining about them or seeing them as unfair.

OP posts:
userschmoozer · 26/01/2019 18:05

Really? I think the word that's used most often is 'bitter', usually in conjunction with 'unattractive' and 'feminist'.

Oxytocindeficient · 26/01/2019 18:05

You lost me at ‘boys things’. If you think it’s ‘nature’ you’re really just saying we have pink and blue brains. This post is crazy and sexist as fuck

Longtalljosie · 26/01/2019 18:07

@SkylightandChandelier I think you mean this one:

userschmoozer · 26/01/2019 18:07

OP are you a feminist as in 'equalist'? They are not the same thing.

QueenieInFrance · 26/01/2019 18:11

but the advert is implying it is the majority of men that behave in negative ways and that's not fair or true.

I actually disagree with that and it hurts to be saying so seeing that I have two teen boys.

BUT, by the time girls are turning 18yo, 80% of the girls will have experienced sexual harassement. From their peers.
30% of men say that they would rape a woman if they knew there was no risk to be caught out. RAPE.

So yes, unfortunately, I will say that MOST men have no issue treating women like crap amongst other things.

I’d like to know why your DP is finding that advert an issue. I showed it to H and my two teens. None of them can see an issue with it. Neither does my dad who is in his 70s.
ALL of them will tell you that harassement, bullying, hitting, fighting isn’t acceptable. And that ‘boys will be boys’ isn’t good enough.
Why does he think there is an issue? Not you. Him.

QueenieInFrance · 26/01/2019 18:12

And fwiw in not sure what race has to do with it too.
Is the idea that black men can be ‘better than’ white men (or patrayed as such) an issue for you? Because that sounds quiTe racist to me.

Oxytocindeficient · 26/01/2019 18:18

My husband had no issue with it either, because he already calls out other men, which is the main point of the ad. Not that all men are bad, but that the good guys needed to speak up more. If you have an issue with the ad, you just don’t want to accept reality.

AnyOldPrion · 26/01/2019 18:18

”I know of no men who behave in this way...” in my presence.

There you go, fixed it for you. I have no idea how the men in my life behave when alone together with other men, but I’m pretty sure some who seem perfectly decent are assholes when there are no women there. “It’s just locker room talk!”

Also... if you look at my sister’s family, 1boy, 1girl, you could easily conclude what you have done. But if you looked at my family (also boys and girls) you’d conclude the exact opposite. Both my sister and I preferred boy’s things growing up and I’m shocked she had a pink, doll-loving daughter. Children are children and they’re all very different. You cannot draw conclusions from observing your own children in isolation, and you have no idea how others are socialising theirs.

Oxytocindeficient · 26/01/2019 18:20

Yup. My husbands friend, of many years, who would play guitar to our baby and I thought was soooo nice, sent texts to him I saw that were fucking disgusting. Horrible sexist and slut shaming texts. He was due to come stay at our house with our teenage daughter until we both read them and changed our minds. You really have no idea what men are like without women around do you?

MargueritaPink · 26/01/2019 18:21

My husband had no problem with it either. On the contrary he thought it accurately identified what is problematic about aggressive masculinity.

Badstyley · 26/01/2019 19:51

I’m of the opinion that all the men who have a problem with the advert feel it reflects badly on them, which begs the question, why would they think that? If they don’t behave like arseholes then it’s unlikely anyone would think they were, so there’s gotta be some basis to the belief that people would look at their behaviour and think it. Men don’t get randomly assigned arseholes, on the contrary, I think most women try to see the best in men, so the answer to not wanting to look bad is not to behave badly, then the advert can portray men being arseholes all it wants, but it would make no difference to them.

As for boy stuff and girl stuff, well that’s bollocks. All the children in my family are different and so are the adults. My son is far less rough and tumble than I was when I was a kid and he’s far more thoughtful and sensitive than I was. Girl stuff and boy stuff is harmful Sexist nonsense.

rubyroot · 26/01/2019 19:57

Is the idea that black men can be ‘better than’ white men (or patrayed as such) an issue for you? Because that sounds quiTe racist to me.

No that is not an issue, it is an issue if it has been done purposely though and I think gillette will have thought very carefully about the advert.

I really do not understand how I can be accused of racism based on that- bloody hell!

OP posts:
rubyroot · 26/01/2019 20:03

Girl stuff and boy stuff is harmful Sexist nonsense.

I think lots of girl stuff is. If I had a girl she too would play with trains, construction toys etc. But I do think boys and girls levitate to different things- I don't think this is sexist. There's research which does support this view.
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080303120346.htm
www.city.ac.uk/news/2016/july/infants-prefer-toys-typed-to-their-gender,-says-study
www.babycentre.co.uk/a1038511/brain-development-are-boys-and-girls-brains-different
www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hope-relationships/201402/brain-differences-between-genders

OP posts:
rubyroot · 26/01/2019 20:04

But I suppose we can just say the research is wrong and by then we have unconsciously taught our children to fit into gender stereotypes

OP posts:
QueenieInFrance · 26/01/2019 20:30

Of course we have.

Another way to look at it.
I’ve had MANY discussions with my children teachers when they were in primary. All convinced that boys are good at maths and girls are good English. All convinced there was nothing to do about it and they KNEW because clearly research is showing it that girls aren’t good at maths.
Now I’m french and in France girls do better than boys at maths. There are more girls than boys doing Alevels maths/science and they have better results.
Surely if this was all nature and research was clearly proving that this was the case, then it wouod be the same in every country?

The same is happening with studying boys and girls brain.
If on an everyday basis, the girls are talked to more and it’s expecting form them that they will listen etc.. then of course that area of the brain will be developed more.
Just like when people do 20mins of meditation everyday, it changes the structure if the brain within few weeks.
No reason why it woulnt do that on children with language, ways to learn etc... because of our subconscious biases.

Anlaf · 26/01/2019 20:52

Children naturally levitating to sexed toys:

PerspicaciaTick · 26/01/2019 21:00

The Gillette advert has been immensely useful in flushing out large numbers of men (and women) who not only feel men have no responsibility to do anything about misogyny and male violence but who are furious that they have even been asked to think about it. It is depressing to realise how many people feel confident to express these opinions, but I prefer them to be visible.

Lacypants · 26/01/2019 21:01

My first child is slim built, likes ballet and choir, and enjoys creative persuits. They read a lot. They are very sensitive and cry easily.

My second child is a solid little thing, broad-shouldered, thinks farting is the funniest thing on earth, likes to climb and run about, and is a little maths ace. They are argumentative and stubborn.

Guess the sexes based on the socially constructed gender of the traits they have....

Honestly, I shouldn't have bothered posting after the NAMALT but I'm a glotton for punishment clearly

coffeewonder · 26/01/2019 21:32

'What I also noticed is that the 'good men' tend to be black and it therefore seems to be focussed on white masculinity- 1 of the 'bad men' is black and 5 of the 'good men' are black... interesting'

The ad demonstrates how men are portrayed in the media which is dominated by white men. Would that explain your observation?

RebelWitchFace · 26/01/2019 21:45

I know of no men who behave in this way.

Really? You've never met a man that catcalled,that groped someone,that did the "give us a smile love" or "is your husband home", that engaged in locker room banter or watched porn? Never met a man that got angry because you didn't give him your attention , or invited himself at your table even if you were busy? Never met a man that asked you do make a cuppa even if it's not your job, or patronised you or called you hysterical,hormonal etc? Never met a man that pressured you into sex or assumed sex was on the table because you agreed to a coffee? Never ever felt intimidated,threatened,humiliated or harassed by a man? If you really haven't... I'm genuinely happy for you, because it sucks.

It doesn't start with rape and murder. That's where it ends.

PencilsInSpace · 26/01/2019 21:50

The ad wasn't saying most men are predatory or violent it was saying most men could do more to challenge this sort of behaviour in other men and challenge the culture which condones and facilitates it.

I agree with this message, more men could and should challenge these things.

we need to teach our boys not to be boys

The message was that we need to teach boys that violence is not a necessary part of being a boy and that we need to stop excusing it. This is important because otherwise they'll grow up thinking violence is OK and it's not. Obviously.

I haven't analysed the racial mix of actors but I wonder why your husband has difficulty identifying with the good guys in the advert because some of them are black? What do you suppose it's like for black people watching ads, tv programmes, films etc? Do you think black people should only identify with black characters, however they are portrayed? That would be very limiting. I don't think anyone who likes the ad has brought up race. It's about men and masculinity, not race.

I don't know any men like the ones on the ad- at all!

You probably do. We all probably do. Most men are not violent or predatory but very few will challenge other men on their behaviour. Has your husband really always challenged a rape joke or an acquaintance objectifying women? Would he even notice or is it just normal?

You also probably know at least one or two men who are actually violent and/or predatory themselves. They're generally able to control their behaviour and can rein it in when they're with colleagues or at a family barbecue so you might not have any way to know. Someone's doing the violence though. We've enough men locked away that if it was just a few the problem would be solved by now.

And yes I will let my son (he's one) do boy things- run around, be active, climb, explore. He will be taught to be masculine as he is a boy and there is a certain biological element there. I want him to be able to provide for himself, nurture his family, treat his girlfriend well and protect her- all those things we see as masculine.

The 'boy thing' the advert addressed was fighting. Hitting another child. Not running around, being active, climbing or exploring. Those are all OK, why would you think otherwise?

My daughter loved all those things when she was little and she didn't need teaching. Other children, male and female, will prefer quieter activities and that's fine too. If your son turns out to love arts and crafts or reading or imaginary play please don't 'teach' him out of these because of misguided ideas about masculinity. As others have said, if it was biological you wouldn't have to teach it.

Providing for yourself, nurturing your family and treating your partner well are necessary life skills for everyone, male or female.

The virtue signalling gillette advert
AnyOldPrion · 26/01/2019 22:19

”I’m of the opinion that all the men who have a problem with the advert feel it reflects badly on them“

This^^

They feel guilty as somewhere inside they know they could do more. It makes them angry.

sackrifice · 26/01/2019 22:34

Not all men

Yes, that is the point of the advert innit.

Took you a while.

Swipe left for the next trending thread