Jean Hatchet, new blog post

[SugarPlumFairy99]

jeanhatchet.blogspot.com/2019/01/why-i-wont-be-standing-up-for-women.html

This blog post from Jean is eye-opening. Working alongside anti-abortion, hard right groups undermines decades of feminism.

Shame on Posie. I agree with Jean, I will also be sitting down for women.

MsVanillaRoseAuntof7 Hate to say this (no, I don't), but lots of trans people and allies warned you about dodgy allies. We told you, we told you, we told you

If there was a competition to see who had the dodgiest allies, I guarantee you would win.

Thing is that when you declare yourself willing to tolerate right-wingers, you alienate women who are LGB, women of colour- basically anyone who is already marginalised. We find it hard to understand how you can claim to be working in our best interests, yet support groups who openly hate us. So we can't put all that aside and focus on some greater good, because it's not a greater good for us.

This. Far right groups generally are against LGB women, women of colour, Muslim women etc. When white, heterosexual women align themselves and ally themselves with these groups that openly hate us it proves that they don't care as long as it fits their goal. You might say Posie is working for all women but it's a massive slap in the face to then go and ally herself with a group against abortion.

I agree with the poster who pointed out that some people on these boards don't fully understand the implications of a right-wing group in the US and Posie aligning herself with them, and that the right in the US is basically a more efficient UKIP, not the Tories.

And to the poster who suggested that if right wing organisations are hating marginalised women, we should be working with them to try and change their viewpoint?? it actually made me angry reading that. What the fuck is that supposed to mean? The sheer ignorance and victim blaming to somehow suggest that we are unreasonable to not want to work with groups that hate us and as if we're being unreasonable to feel this way.

I feel that a lot of the time on these boards the voices and concerns of marginalised women are often shut down in the name of 'greater good' because we have such few gender critical activists standing for us. Just because we don't have many people it doesn't mean we should say it's fine, Posie has a different perspective, when they are actively allying themselves with groups that hate women. It actually seems to me that the silencing of marginalised women on here in favour of activists such as Posie, who can do no wrong because she's helped women in the past, is very similar to the silencing that TRAs are carrying out on all gender critical women.

It has been very depressing to read this thread. Reminds me of the US white feminists who actively campaigned against black women's voting rights so that they could achieve their own vote, whilst saying that they were working for all women. What people don't seem to understand is that if you ally yourself with a group that hates a certain type of person, you are saying that your own political agenda and desire for progress is more important than supporting them. It's basically saying fuck you, shut up and stop complaining that she's tolerating hateful views. It's for the greater good apparently.

I have massive respect for the achievements of Jean and of Posie. Both of them speak out publicly in a way I would be fucking terrified to do.

They're not our leaders though. They haven’t invented a school of thought, nor have they created an identity for a group to revolve around. That already existed.

This isn’t a schism- whatever a bunch of misogynistic authoritarian little shits on Twitter might be hoping for. This can’t be squashed. Like Stickerwoman, we’re everywhere!

That’s event though mainstream women’s groups already aren’t gender critical. And though we don’t have Stonewall or Mermaids or whoever’s massive funding. And though we have just one MP openly on our side. And though we don’t have access to well paid or influential jobs just because we hold gender critical views. Completely the fucking opposite. If many of us said what we really thought at our work or even to our friends we would find ourselves in a world of shit.

So I don’t like seeing that two people I respect have parted ways, but equally there are also other women doing fucking amazing work too around these issues. It already goes without saying that it’s completely right that everyone only campaigns in the areas that they feel right to do.

Posie and Hatchet both heroes on their own unique style. They are strong women voicing women's concerns. Strange alliances happen when the times are sooo troubled.

I for one don't like the left that considers sex work. Nor the right that prefers trans to LGBT.

Platforms are few and in US they performing mastectomies on 13 year old gender non confirm kids under the progressive left.

We need all the voices we can raise. Women are many, we can have different principles and styles but one purpose: Women adult female.

TacoLover Give 30' to listen to this ... how two women who are seemingly poles apart [a Jewish lesbian feminist and a right wing christian heterosexual woman] came together to form Hands Across The Aisle to defend women's rights in USA:

Platforms are few and in US they performing mastectomies on 13 year old gender non confirm kids under the progressive left.

Wtf. Is that really happening?

Either we're a hive mind in an echo chamber, or 'the movement' has been irrevocably damaged by a discussion. There is no one movement and that's one reason why it cannot be harmed by being associated with one event or individual.

This. Get three 'MN feminists' in a room and you'll get 7 different opinions.

I can't get behind Posie Parker- I find some of the things she's said and the way she says them make me worry; but I understand why people do value her voice and (more importantly) I support her right to say what the hell she wants.

Who gives a shit whether we all agree? Lets concentrated on driving a stake through the heart of self ID and Butlerism.

I feel that a lot of the time on these boards the voices and concerns of marginalised women are often shut down in the name of 'greater good' because we have such few gender critical activists standing for us.

Don’t you dare make assumptions about people commenting in support of Posie. You have no flipping idea as to the colour or anything else. You think you’re the only marginalised person on this thread. I am tired of people like you making ugly statements about heterosexual white women. You don’t even know if we even are white or heterosexual. So how about you give us all equal respect and stop with the TRA style dismissive bullshit

*Platforms are few and in US they performing mastectomies on 13 year old gender non confirm kids under the progressive left.+

Yes, yes it is. #topsurgery on instagram 120K+ posts. Check out the associated hashtags.

Laws can only ever force people to comply on a superficial level. They cannot ever change belief or opinion

The only thing that changes belief and opinion is human interaction. We cannot change the belief or opinions of women with whom we disagree or to whom we are fundamentally opposed without interacting with them on an individual basis, to demonstrate that we are no more and o less of a woman than they are.

From that individual activity grows group activity.

It is called sisterhood.

Heritage is part of a network that includes the Independent Women's Forum:

"Opposition to other feminist ideas
The IWF opposes many mainstream feminist positions, describing them as "radical feminism". IWF-affiliated writers have argued that the gender gap in income exists because of women's greater demand for flexibility, fewer hours, and less travel in their careers, rather than because of sexism. In an article for the Dallas Morning News, IWF Vice-President Carrie Lukas attributed gender disparities in income to "women's own choices", writing that women "tend to place a higher priority on flexibility and personal fulfillment than do men, who focus more on pay. Women tend to avoid jobs that require travel or relocation, and they take more time off and spend fewer hours in the office than men do. Men disproportionately take on the most dirty, dangerous and depressing jobs."

The IWF also argues that feminists manufacture domestic violence legislation that "is misleading because it is premised on and mean to advance feminist ideology." This falls under their larger belief that "feminists ... lie about data, are opportunistic, construct men as the enemy, and cast women as helpless victims."

Conservative commentators have praised the IWF; Linda Chavez credited Women's Figures: An Illustrated Guide to the Economic Progress of Women in America, a 1999 book published in part by the IWF, with "debunk[ing] much of the feminists' voodoo economics." Writing in Capitalist Magazine, John Stossel cited Michelle Bernard's 2007 book Women's Progrss as evidence that "American women have never enjoyed more options or such a high quality of life."

Some writers have asserted that feminist rhetoric is used by the IWF for anti-feminist ends. A New York Times editorial described the IWF as "a right-wing public policy group that provides pseudofeminist support for extreme positions that are in fact dangerous to women." "

If you want the links they go from here

www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Heritage_Foundation

To here:

www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Americans_for_Prosperity#AFP_Launches_Campaign_to_Promote_Trump_Judges

To here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Women%27s_Forum#Opposition_to_other_feminist_ideas

This isn't walking with the devil to the end of the bridge. This would be the devil walking you to the middle of the bridge and claiming your ideas.

Flat out co-optation, mainly because the RW is losing it's appeal among women.

Thank you TacoLover and OP. Felt like I was going mad for a while there- so gobsmacked at the ‘well just go and interact with the racists and homophobes and change their minds if it bothers you so much’. I guess that Posie can do no wrong in the minds of the majority on here. Whatever she did, we would be the unreasonable ones for not putting our own interests and rights aside for some greater good that is now apparently shared with a group that is pro-Trump and traditional American values.

Nobody has made ugly statements about white or heterosexual women. I simply said that if you aren’t part of the demographic that these groups want to oppress, maybe it is easier to put your feelings aside for the ‘greater good’. It’s much harder to do so when you are not part of the mainstream.

Platforms are few and in US they performing mastectomies on 13 year old gender non confirm kids under the progressive left.

Wtf. Is that really happening?

thefederalist.com/2018/09/12/u-s-doctors-performing-double-mastectomies-healthy-13-year-old-girls/

Professional guidelines and clinical practice should recommend patients for chest surgery based on individual need rather than chronologic age.
jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abstract/2674039

Wrong Funky. TacoLover made the ugly comments. It’s very clear.

I guess that Posie can do no wrong in the minds of the majority on here.

You are so childish. Not everything is black and white.

Funkyfunkybeat12 I guess many women here in the UK have a different perspective and maybe our support for our sisters in America is unwelcome because of that.

So be it. We tried.

The only thing that changes belief and opinion is human interaction. We cannot change the belief or opinions of women with whom we disagree or to whom we are fundamentally opposed without interacting with them on an individual basis, to demonstrate that we are no more and o less of a woman than they are.

This.

You might say Posie is working for all women but it's a massive slap in the face to then go and ally herself with a group against abortion.

After decades of pro choice actions I would not want to be in a room with any of those fuckers either. But some of the most effective, lasting stuff I have ever done was by reaching out on just that one issue and doing the exact opposite of preaching to the converted. If anyone had said or thought that by having those tactical conversations we had become ‘allied’ to each other, all those various people would have laughed or looked very uncomfortable.

but lots of trans people and allies warned you about dodgy allies.

Maybe 'trans people' should consider different ideologies of the founders of TELI: Antifa Communist Jess Bradley and Conservative 'pro-life' Catholic Tara Hewitt?

Rose of Dawn
'What does co-opting the trans movement look like?'

'What it's like to be Transgender and Catholic
Tara Hewitt, NHS equality and diversity advisor, doesn't believe in abortion or IVF but says it doesn't affect her job'
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/what-its-like-transgender-catholic-10810323

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374926-What-influence-does-TELI-have-on-government-public-services-and-charities-policies-Co-founders-include-Jess-Bradley-Tara-Hewitt-and-Michelle-Hudson

Thanks for the links, that is shocking. I thought the US was quite litigious, I wonder how many lawsuits will come out of this.

Pointing out that marginalised women are often left behind in feminism is not making ugly comments. It’s quite clear though that you’re unable to take on board the concerns that I and other posters have about this.

And the idea that we should interact with those who hate us and want to oppress us shows even more lack of insight or concern.

It’s not being childish to make these points. And it’s not an attack on white heterosexual women.

Vanvouver Library Canada:

'Lee Lakeman, Meghan Murphy, and surprise guest Fay Blaney spoke to a packed house on Thursday, despite protests and efforts to shut down the event.'
(extract)
In case you weren’t able to attend the sold out Gender Identity Ideology and Women’s Rights talk at the Vancouver Public Library, it was, in a word, beautiful. On Thursday, myself, Lee Lakeman, and surprise speaker Fay Blaney spoke truth to power, shutting down any possibility of discrediting the independent, grassroots women’s movement. Blaney challenged the myth of numerous “genders” in Indigenous cultures, wielded by trans activists in order to justify post-modern, academic theories about “gender identity,” and claim them as “non-Western” for identity politics points. Blaney said, “There are people who are talking about how Indigenous nations had five genders. That’s absolute B.S.” Lakeman reminded “those of you who can imagine bullying us into submission, you’re clearly unfamiliar with us.” I argued that it is unnecessary to trample on women’s rights in order to also argue that those who step out of traditional gender stereotypes should not be harassed or discriminated, and indeed, challenging gender stereotypes is always what feminists have encouraged. No one in attendance could argue, with any integrity, that any of the panelists were “hateful” or interested in harming others." (continues)
www.feministcurrent.com/2019/01/11/vancouver-gender-identity-event-a-roaring-success-gidvpl/

Lee Lakeman speech:
(extract)

1. Our purpose as a movement and as an organization within that movement is not to give every woman the choice of which sex she would like to be or to promote notions that each woman should challenge herself to find or create freedom for herself on her own.

1. These silly ideas have come with neoliberalism;

10. our primary work is to focus on and take down the structures that prevent women from escaping gendered roles and gendered poverty and gendered racism,

11. those structures that enforce gender with laws, norms and institutions including with male violence against women.

12. Meghan sometimes says she is fighting for free speech. I am not. I don’t plan to put up with the hate speech of pornography or hate speech of racism and I’m not to willing to tolerate the hate speech against the poor.

13. I am fighting for freedom for women and most of all for that freedom that de Beauvoir describes as the freedom that enriches the freedom of others." (continues)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3479722-Lee-Lakeman-Vancouver-Jan-2019-Thread-title-edited-by-MNHQ

Thanks for the links, that is shocking. I thought the US was quite litigious, I wonder how many lawsuits will come out of this.

A lot. That is what will eventually kill this ideology, but we’re probably a couple of decades from that point and I’d really like to stop it sooner. Top surgery is not being done on under 16’s in this country, but binding is a problem.