Jean Hatchet, new blog post

[SugarPlumFairy99]

jeanhatchet.blogspot.com/2019/01/why-i-wont-be-standing-up-for-women.html

This blog post from Jean is eye-opening. Working alongside anti-abortion, hard right groups undermines decades of feminism.

Shame on Posie. I agree with Jean, I will also be sitting down for women.

Didn't rtft but read Jean Hatchet's post.

I think she is entitled to act according to her own conscience and speak up about her misgivings. Posie is great - creative, courageous, original and right about so much- but no one is perfect. She gets shit done by just getting on with it.

I really feel uncomfortable with people feeling like a gift is being given to the Male Supremacists when feminists disagree.

Keep speaking out sisters. No one has to be perfect. You don't have to agree on everything. Keep acting according to your principles. We'll get there.

Posie is siding with the Kochtopus.

"The Independent Women's Forum (IWF, not to be confused with the International Women's Forum) is an anti-feminist organization predominantly funded by right-wing foundations, including the Sarah Scaife Foundation, the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, and the Koch brothers' Claude R. Lambe Foundation. On its website, it describes its mission as being "to rebuild civil society by advancing economic liberty, personal responsibility, and political freedom. IWF builds support for a greater respect for limited government, equality under the law, property rights, free markets, strong families, and a powerful and effective national defense and foreign policy."

"The IWF originally grew out of a group called "Women for Clarence Thomas," formed to support Clarence Thomas, then a nominee for the U.S. Supreme Court, against allegations of sexual harassment. It has vocally opposed the Violence Against Women Act."

In an editorial, The New York Times called the IWF "a right-wing public policy group that provides pseudofeminist support for extreme positions that are in fact dangerous to women."

From 2003 to 2008, IWF was closely affiliated with the Koch brothers-backed Americans for Prosperity."

IWF has two sister organizations: a 501(c)(4) issue advocacy group, Independent Women's Voice (IWF), formed in 2003; and a network of local chapters called Independent Women's Network, formed in 2012."

www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Independent_Women's_Forum

It's not dodgy, Rowan. It's the wrong fucking side of two Republican strategies.

Funky, you both keep saying ‘us’ and ‘marganalised women’ as if none of the women here disagreeing with you fit this description. Many of us do. Again, it implies you’re speaking for certain women and assuming who the rest of us are. The intention of the comment from Taco, and some from you, is to divide the two opposing positions in this thread as ‘marganalised/WOC/lesbian’ v heterosexual white. Indeed Taco referred to ‘white feminists’. Again, neither of you know who we are or what our various labels are. No, I’m not obliged to ‘take on your concerns’, although I and most others state several times you’re entitled to set limits to who you’ll work with as Jean is. We are objecting to the way you’re attacking Posie or anyone who is willing to work with women on the right.

Either we're a hive mind in an echo chamber, or 'the movement' has been irrevocably damaged by a discussion. There is no one movement and that's one reason why it cannot be harmed by being associated with one event or individual.

And...

Like Stickerwoman, we’re everywhere!

Exactly! We're not in a cult like they are. Any woman on this thread is welcome to make her own decisions about the parameters of support she offers, which groups or women to support and which not to support.

You don't want to support Posie or Hands Across the Aisle? Fine. Don't. Just stop telling everyone else they shouldn't either. I'll support who I want, what I want, when I want. If I disagree on an issue I will say so. If I agree I will say so. I'm not playing the hierarchy game. I'll do and say what I fucking well like - and that includes arguing with Posie if I feel like it.

I'll support who I want, what I want, when I want. If I disagree on an issue I will say so. If I agree I will say so. I'm not playing the hierarchy game. I'll do and say what I fucking well like - and that includes arguing with Posie if I feel like it.

Absofuckinglutely.

Amen

Fine. I don’t speak for all marginalised women. Maybe most don’t mind about working with women on the right, including as a recent post has pointed out, groups that want to stop assistance for DV victims. Perhaps I am the only one who minds and doesn’t think that anything can be won by joining hands with these hateful groups.

Don’t you dare make assumptions about people commenting in support of Posie. You have no flipping idea as to the colour or anything else. You think you’re the only marginalised person on this thread. I am tired of people like you making ugly statements about heterosexual white women. You don’t even know if we even are white or heterosexual. So how about you give us all equal respect and stop with the TRA style dismissive bullshit

Telling me not to dare suggesting that marginalised women's concerns are being overlooked, likening me to a TRA and accusing me of making ugly comments because I had the audacity to suggest that many gender critical feminists are ignoring our concerns? No, not trying to silence us at all

If you stopped your incredibly aggressive charade for a second you might realise that I didn't say all Posie supporters were white and heterosexual. I said that marginalised voices were being overlooked and dismissed in the name of the greater good, and ignoring the effect that has on marginalised women. How is that an ugly statement? Did you even read all of my post or did you stop at the mention of a white woman and jump in to remind me that I'm not the only marginalised person to exist. Oh, what an idiot I am.

I'll support who I want, what I want, when I want. If I disagree on an issue I will say so. If I agree I will say so. I'm not playing the hierarchy game. I'll do and say what I fucking well like

Quite.

The women's movement is not a dainty, fragile thing made of glass, it's made of opinionated, determined, wildly different and interesting flesh and blood women.

Fuck off trying to put us into neat little boxes and make us toe lines.

JFC, Funky - nobody's trying to tell you to do anything! Do what you like. Support what you like. Just stop telling everyone else they can't do the same.

For example, my priority is working class and underclass women lacking in economic and social capital - regardless of race or orientation. That is where I put my cash, my volunteering and most of my attention.

Others might want to prioritise race or orientation, or reproductive rights, or or or. I'm not telling them not to. I welcome any woman working for other women to put her efforts where she chooses.

There is room for every woman in the GC movement. Even right wing women, even pro-choice women. Even the woman who got off with your last boyfriend, which really fucked you off. Because it's not a fucking hierarchy. It's about women. All women. You can pick and choose where you put your efforts within it. Nobody's telling you otherwise, so stop telling other women otherwise. We've all got our priorities and we've all got our red lines.

Because we're not the cult. Stop trying to make us one.

We are objecting to the way you’re attacking Posie or anyone who is willing to work with women on the right.

The issue I have is that you think it's perfectly fine for a feminist to ally herself with a group that openly is against certain women, including DV victims. You think Posie is fine to work with people like this. I think it's abhorrent, so if you want to say I'm attacking Posie for supporting/tolerating such horrible people then that's fine.

And the accusations of me trying to create a divide between white heterosexual women and marginalised women are bullshit. I merely pointed out that I thought marginalised voices in feminism are very often shut down or silenced. And you are proof of that whether you're white and heterosexual or not.

our concerns?

Who is ‘our’ then? Just yours? Just the marganalised women who agree with you? You keep saying ‘we’ are talking over ‘you’ and ‘marganalised’ women. Some of us are are marganalised and you’re talking over and for us. Stop it.

The way you’re presenting this is as if the right-wing is just another branch of feminism. It is anti-feminist. That’s just a neutral observation- there is no way that that can even be debated because these groups openly state that they want women to conform to harmful gender roles. So it’s not in any way the same as choosing to focus on poor women or disabled women or whatever. And as a feminist I will damm well warn against people choosing to side with the enemy. Same as how I don’t suggest that POC should join the EDL (although maybe that counts as interacting with those who hold different viewpoints...)

You have reading comprehension problems. I said, you’re trying to set up the two differing opinions here as white hetero v marganalised, that’s not accurate and is a massive assumption. It is certainly wrong about me.

Currently most on the left are also anti-feminist. Who does that leave?

I give up. I genuinely can’t see mumsnet as a feminist place anymore seeing as this seems to be the prevailing viewpoint. Not just on this thread but on many others. Official flounce.

Good

I guess that Posie can do no wrong in the minds of the majority on here. Whatever she did, we would be the unreasonable ones for not putting our own interests and rights aside for some greater good that is now apparently shared with a group that is pro-Trump and traditional American values.

No.

Please stop the generalisations and pigeonholing. Stop the divisive hyperbole. I am so sick of the dehumanising rhetoric of black and white thinking.

Agreeing with Posie on various matters is not the same as believing that she can do no wrong.

And the idea that we should interact with those who hate us and want to oppress us shows even more lack of insight or concern.

With Oxy. You speak with authority but you can only speak for yourself.

Perhaps I am the only one who minds and doesn’t think that anything can be won by joining hands with these hateful groups.

Again generalisations. 'The only one', 'doesn't think that anything can be won', 'hateful groups'. People are individuals not pigeonhole fodder.

A reminder: you made specific and serious accusations of racism against a woman and are yet to produce the tweets or MN threads that you referred to. I think that you should substantiate those claims or withdraw the remarks. I would feel the same if you were talking about any other woman. Again, happy to be corrected if those tweets and threads exist.

Also, feminism is utterly soul-searching and self-critical which is why the penises have been so successful in rolling onto centre-stage on this carriage of intersectional feminism - claiming that men are the most marginalised and oppressed of all women - because they are not even women . Total horseshit, but feminists soul-searched and self-critiqued instead of telling the piss-takers to do one.

Too late. Flounced. Sigh.

Currently there are so called 'progressives' on the left trying to shut down a shelter for vulnerable, often abused women that is run by a religious group, because the shelter won't accept biological men who ID as women. Let's not pretend much of the left gives a shit about actual women.

WeRiseUp Fuck, you are so right about that last comment.

Misogyny on the left and misogyny on the right. At least one side lets us talk about it.

This sums it up perfectly for me.