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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jean Hatchet, new blog post

999 replies

SugarPlumFairy99 · 25/01/2019 14:38

jeanhatchet.blogspot.com/2019/01/why-i-wont-be-standing-up-for-women.html

This blog post from Jean is eye-opening. Working alongside anti-abortion, hard right groups undermines decades of feminism.

Shame on Posie. I agree with Jean, I will also be sitting down for women.

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MiddleAgeRage · 11/02/2019 15:58

I’ll be focusing my energy on real life GC activity from now on

This^^ Whilst all of this is rumbling on it has been great to just beaver away on locally organised projects/actions with GC people in my area. Staying positive, staying focused is the way forward.

WeRiseUp · 11/02/2019 16:13

My problem was with Rosa being called a nutjob, paranoid and other things by women on here.
I am the only one, I think, who said either 'nutjob' or 'paranoid'. You may notice that I have not labelled her as anything. You seem to be removing the important 'like a' or 'as thoughs' which show the distinction that I am commenting on her behaviours, in the current conditions, not placing fixed descriptions/judgements about as inherent traits as a person.
This is another TRA tactic actually. You can say "you are behaving strangely" and then they'll say "you are calling me a strange freak because I am trans waaaaa". It is subtle manipulation.
And, if I understand the insinuations correctly, being cast as the evil Iago against the noble but flawed Othello.

I don't know what others are thinking, but I suspend my judgement. You got my insinuations wrong. I personally wonder - who placed the selfie in front of Freedman? Who told her about the man's politics? I think Rosa has some weaknesses which are ripe for Iago-like manipulation. I imagine she is more like Othello. Who is the goady bastard pushing her most sensitive buttons? I've no idea.

RosaFreedman1983 · 11/02/2019 16:31

I am tired; really tired. And I think many women feel the same way. I stepped into the public discussions when it became clear that the consultations were going to open on the GRA, and when it became apparent that the law was being misrepresented by academics seeking to conflate law and gender. I stepped in whilst on my way to do field research during the summer, a time that I try to keep free of field work so that I can be around during the school holidays. I had no idea that by the time I got off the aeroplane my employer would have been contacted by many people making spurious and pernicious allegations, and that we would have to try to juggle the fallout while I was thousands of miles from home. I had no idea that by presenting a human rights based approach to the legal issues that I would immediately be vilified by some and heralded by others – I am an academic, and I like to keep my head down and do my research, writing, and human rights work. I had no idea that I would lose friends, colleagues, and work opportunities. I had no idea that I would continue to do my day-job and spend my evenings and weekends writing, speaking, talking to fellow activists, providing legal research and advice to people around the world, and the impact it would have on my health, my family, and my life. And make no mistake, even if I had known I would choose to do it all again, because I believe in fundamental rights for all people, and specific rights for vulnerable groups, and sex-based rights for females. It has been a privilege to meet so many incredible women and to learn from all of them.

Women’s activism has always worked through pooling resources – we each contribute what we can, and we work together and support one another. We are not a typical women’s rights movement – in fact, I don’t think we are a movement at all, but rather a loose collection of women who agree on the need to protect sex-based rights. Many of the women who have been involved in this did not know one another, and we still do not really know one another beyond that loose connection based on our desire to protect sex-based rights. We do not have to agree with one another. We do not have to like one another. We can stand up and criticise one another.

Finding myself (and other women) analysed and discussed on social media platforms has been increasingly difficult to understand, particularly as there is so much speculation by people who do not know us but who think that they are in a position to guess or pass judgment on our thoughts, actions, and motives. I am not public property. I am a 36 year old law professor, mother, spouse, sister, daughter, friend, country music fan, Jew, non-iphone-user, nicotine addict, Arsenal season ticket holder, terrible baker but great soup maker, and many more things besides. You do not know me, and your speculation about why I do or say things would be better informed if you had a conversation with me.

Today a TRA contacted me and sent me screenshots of someone trying to doxx me. They allege (and you can see this on many twitter accounts of TRAs) that this is coming from GC women. At the same time, women I trust have told me that this is the same type of tactic used against Posie and others by TRAs. I doubt very much that a woman with whom I might not always agree who has had these threats to her and who cares deeply about children would ever be involved in such a thing. But I don’t know whether some of the people who support her from behind anonymous accounts might behave in this way. And we all know that TRAs have behaved towards GC women. So, I don’t know what to think, but I do know that as a parent of a young child I am scared and worried. I have left Twitter because of this, and I am stepping back because of this; my employer has now stepped up security, and my local police have had to get involved. So, if you do want to keep comparing me or others to characters from Othello, or endlessly analysing me you will do so, because we all have agency and none of us owe each other anything. But I am stepping in now to let you know that this all has an impact. Of course, I now expect that every word of this will be analysed if not on here then on facebook or twitter, but I will not be on social media or here to see any fallout.

Coyoacan · 11/02/2019 16:32

I think the women who should be held responsible for bringing the work of women into disrepute or "handing it to trans activists on a plate" is not the woman who didn't go along with it ... but the ones who did

That puts ME on the highest moral ground because I have never done anything.

LangCleg · 11/02/2019 16:34

GCAcademic - I agree about getting out there in real life and not getting caught up in online hostilities. But I also think you should stay here.

Think about this: the only thing that connects women on Mumsnet is that they are women. That's what makes it so dangerous in the eyes of the fundie genderists. That's why they have to lie and pretend we're a hive mind/coven of witches - but we're not: we're rich and poor, lefties and righties, graduates and non-graduates, old and young, professional and manual. We have a single voice on absolutely nothing at all, even trans issues.

And that is why it is so great. What's the odd arse-handing between friends compared to the fact that we're all women with all the shared context that implies?

NoseringGirl · 11/02/2019 16:41

Rosa Thanks**

Mumfun · 11/02/2019 16:46

I feel too that it is better to do more now in real life GC activity and will be concentrating there.

I would say that I am always worried about Rosa, Kathleen, Jean, Posie and the many many others because they do so much on top of busy lives and carry so much. And have been put under so much scrutiny pressure and abuse. I just hope that they can find enough support personally because they so deserve it.

I havent got into the details of the spats recently as I too have a busy life and I accept that a lot of these women do not agree on everything.

But the important thing is to remain supportive of the GC campaign overall and of sex based rights. We are starting to see significant 'wins' and I hope these will continue to accumulate.

Thanks Rosa for all you have done and wish you peace going forward

CallMeWoman · 11/02/2019 16:48

Agreed, Lang.

OvaHere · 11/02/2019 16:59

Hi Rosa

I'm sorry you and all the other women on the front lines are having a hard time. I totally understand that you are all utterly tired, I feel that way and I'm not a proper activist.

Honestly a social media break (no matter what the reason) is always good. Twitter is such a toxic, soul destroying environment.

Flowers
SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 11/02/2019 17:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JackyHolyoake · 11/02/2019 17:05

RosaFreedman1983

Women need both 'campaigns' - that of the academics giving their expertise, research and analysis in the political arena plus that of the ordinary women generating the climate of public pressure on parliamentarians.

Back in 2015, during the Transgender Equality Inquiry, as you know, those with expertise were eventually ignored, as evidenced in the final report that was published.

Four years later, the climate is very different. Ordinary women have changed that climate. The Fair Play For Women street campaign during the GRA consultation plus the separate "Woman: adult human female" campaign that helped to generate 100K+ responses chnaged that climate.

The experts doing their invaluable work in the political arena need those public campaigns to maintain their pressure to ensure that they are not ignored again.

There is no need for any expert working on this to feel any association with any of these public campaigns. Those campaigns exist to support the work our experts are doing because it is realised that this is what was lacking in 2015.

Coyoacan · 11/02/2019 17:05

Well said LangCleg

Needmoresleep · 11/02/2019 17:14

Rosa, I am not sure I can forgive you for being an Arsenal supporter. Bournemouth are the better team.

But I do admire what you do, and as someone who fought to save a local park via a seven year campaign, public enquiry and a bizarre level of internet and other abuse, I understand how difficult it is. You are motivated by a passion and belief that people need to stand up, yet this passion drains you.

You are brilliant and articulate, and we need you. But first you need to look after yourself and to ration your input to that, that can be given without too much cost.

Take care.

LangCleg · 11/02/2019 17:14

Wise words, Jacky.

WeRiseUp · 11/02/2019 17:23

Thanks RosaFreedman1983 for speaking directly here. It is such a relief to have people able to leave a long message so we can get a grasp of what you are really thinking. It is shit that Posie has been banned from here (as well as twitter) so there is no 'neutral territory' for her to have her say/right of reply too. It always looks so bloody melodramatic when people post 'their say' on twitter or Facebook, or their own blog and get the 'likes' and commenters who respond beneath look like sycophants and shit-stirrers.

This stuff is exhausting. My fear is that 'named' figures are being manipulated into conflict with one-another, in such a way that is distracting from the good work they are doing. And that, in the long run breaks hearts and burns people out.

SandyDrawsBadly · 11/02/2019 17:38

Finding myself (and other women) analysed and discussed on social media platforms has been increasingly difficult to understand, particularly as there is so much speculation by people who do not know us but who think that they are in a position to guess or pass judgment on our thoughts, actions, and motives

In all directions.
All of this is causing harm and having an impact in all directions.

stumbledin · 11/02/2019 17:59

I think we also need to look at ourselves in all of this; ie have we all become at bit like social media rubber neckers amplifying and gossiping over other people's accidents / disagreements.

Its not surprising that when people are hurt they use language that might be better to only be heard behind closed doors. When we work together with other women we maybe become more personally involved with each other than being part of some other sort of group.

So instead of having statement in public about political differences, whether our understanding of an issue, or how to organise, we get a lot of negative personal comment.

This hasn't just happened on mumsnet but on facebook, where what were intended a political criticism have been met with responses like "you always were a t**t". And twitter which is if anything the demon child of the gutter press seems to encourage this.

In fact I have seen on facebook some women blaming this girl gang taking sides to be a product of mumsnet feminism.

Would be nice to think that however much hurt this has called, in future groups will be clearer who with and how they want to work and organise. And also what used to be called the kitchen table cabals would not be privately networking to achieve an outcome by deceit.

I know some of the resister groups have had blow back because of all of this, but hopefully an organically growing network of autonomous groups will mean pinning hopes and fears on individuals wont be so necessary.

Floisme · 11/02/2019 18:00

Thanks for coming on here RosaFreedman. I wasn't happy about what you were saying last night but, as I've already said, I will still support you and I hope you'll back soon.

One good thing that's come out of this - at least for me - is that I've discovered Raquel Rosario Sanchez. So there's that. Thanks for pointing her out OvaHere

NeurotrashWarrior · 11/02/2019 18:08

I know some of the resister groups have had blow back because of all of this, but hopefully an organically growing network of autonomous groups will mean pinning hopes and fears on individuals wont be so necessary.

I believe there's more groups than anyone actually knows, in secret, because so many women are so scared to speak openly.

There will always be disagreement as more people step up to the challenges of sticking their heads over the parapet. It's human nature to do things slightly differently and come at things in different ways in order to get the job done.

So thank you and well done to all.

drradfem · 11/02/2019 18:08

Omg so after publicly accusing Posie and Julia of criminal assault and violence and then trawling through the hashtag of Posie's Norway event and finding a photo to fabricate more malicious nonsense about her, has Rosa honestly done a MN name change and insinuated that Posie (or her evil gang) is responsible for doxxing her and making her and her family unsafe?! Am I really seeing women falling for this utter horseshit?! JFC that's why I don't spend any time on here.

OvaHere · 11/02/2019 18:10

Ha. Yes she is great Floisme

LangCleg · 11/02/2019 18:14

Am I really seeing women falling for this utter horseshit?!

Venice, no. You're seeing women trying not to get involved.

WeRiseUp · 11/02/2019 18:16

I am aware this is nearly time for a new thread.

I am not sure I could be accused of swallowing horseshit, but can you be sure it was Rosa Freedman herself doing the trawling, etc drradfem, rather than being fed stuff by someone else, and then rashly believed it and acted upon it?

LangCleg · 11/02/2019 18:17

Fin.

Thank fuck for that.

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