School girls gaslit en masse after encountering 'naked man' in swimming pool shower

[QuietContraryMary]

www.kesq.com/news/female-water-polo-players-confronted-by-naked-man-at-palm-springs-swim-center/987276858

The girls found a naked man in the women's shower, which they objected to, describing him as a 'predator'.

The police investigated and said that actually, sorry girls, he's not a man, she's a woman, so STFU, basically.

eu.desertsun.com/story/news/2019/01/24/pool-getting-unisex-shower-formal-policy-after-teens-encounter-trans-woman/2670287002/

It does beg the question of what is the appropriate response when a girl finds a naked man in the changing room, as there doesn't seem to be any possible way to distinguish a 'naked man' from a 'transwoman', nor indeed whether it is safe to be around that person's penis (common sense and practice for basically the entire world's population except those gaslit by TRAs says 'no')

Rarely do they use public showers because they want to avoid harassment.

Haven't read the full thread yet but this stood out to me as being a bit odd tbh.

The only transwomen I know and have spoken to about this (which admittedly is a small sample) don't use public showers or communal changing rooms because they have severe dysphoria about their bodies and they don't want other people looking at them and judging them. Admittedly these transwomen are old school, gender dysphoria suffering and hormone taking transwomen so maybe that's the difference here. These transwomen are also completely and about transwomen who insist on being let into women's spaces, especially those which women will be in states of undress.

That's why I doubt these men who claim to be transwomen really are trans. Because if they were they would have enough issues and hang ups surrounding their own bodies to even contemplate getting undressed in front of anyone.

Oh and of course they don't use female facilities because they are nice people who don't want to put women into positions which make them feel uncomfortable. My point is is that for those suffering from gender dysphoria is that avoiding female spaces like this is as much for their own benefit as it is for women.

The new intake of TWs state their right to simply know that they are women, without any sign of dysphoria.
They also simply know that they have a right to be anywhere that they want to be.

Apologies if this has been already raised in this thread, but

It's about dominance. Marking territory. Knowing that they can walk around with their tackle out in front of women and girls, knowing that it makes them uncomfortable and afraid must be like a drug to them.

So what happens when all facilities are gender neutral, floor to ceiling walls etc. If this behaviour is indeed a drug, where do they go to get the next hit? Where can they escalate from here?

My DP lived in the Czech Republic for a while and when visiting him I went to the local municipal pool. There were no changing rooms, just lockers, and people of all ages and sex were changing in front of each other. There was no prudishness and the old grannies were just as happy to strip off as the toddlers.

What’s your point vintage? That was not the arrangement or the cultural expectation in this set up

There was no prudishness

I'd imagine that the people who felt uncomfortable would probably just not have gone to the pool and were therefore excluded.

Your post seems to suggest that those who do not display prudishness (and one man's prudishness may very well be another's swinging-from-the-chandelier) are somehow superior to those who don't.

They're not.

Worrying about how the 'poor' TW feels? Well, thrilled and very powerful I should think. This is not innocent getting on with life, it's intentional indecent exposure with a failsafe get out clause.

Women will just stop using public spaces. Or they and their partners/fathers will get extremely pissed off and act on how very pissed off they are. There is no way this is going to end well, and I have no sympathy for the selfish people shoving it.

"Presumably the girls’ water polo team has fixed training times, so if a person wanted to be seen naked by a whole group of high school girls, it would be easy to anticipate the exact moment when you would have to be exposed, to ensure maximum exposure?"

Thank you for pointing this out, BettyDuMonde.

Mixed nudity in a bathing/chaning setting is a feature of some cultures. These very different societies have in common a strong sense of social cohesion and collective responsibility. Other people's behaviour is everyone's business and any socially deviant activity will be called out, which means it rarely if ever happens.

Our local city hall is planning to make ALL the bathrooms gender neutral. There are some single stall handicapped restrooms. Guess which one will become the default female restroom?

Maybe if transmen demanded inheritance rights we’d start to see some action at the top?

That won’t happen under the current Gender Reassignment law in England and Wales. Even though the GRA allows for the legal fiction of changed sex, and allows people to legally establish their changed sex (ha!) in a Gender Reassignment certificate (GRC) after following the legal procedures for gender reassignment (which are still the law whatever the TRAs think) - the GRA SPECIFICALLY does not allow even those women/transmen with a GRC so legally male - they are specifically excluded from inheriting hereditary titles or land/estates.

Which rather shows you where the power is, doesn’t it?

It’s the NYPost, so grain of salt and all, but they are reporting that the suspect in the WiSpa incident is the same individual from this episode.

Not read whole thread.

First link is not working.

From the second I would query.

If the girls saw a man then men would see a man. Why would they be at risk in with the men?

If they were doing it for safety etc then why not keep their trunks on just in case anyone came in?

Note the girls are still training there with extra security. If nothing happened then why extra security? That makes no sense.

I'd be interested to know what the girls were told after. Were they told they were right to report? Or told to be more tolerant in future?

In fact there's no need to shower at all if not wanting to make anyone uncomfy. Let alone starkers.

Could even nip into bog change head home shower there.

Yet again I have doubts that this person was only seeking to avoid harrassment...

@Vintagegoth

My DP lived in the Czech Republic for a while and when visiting him I went to the local municipal pool. There were no changing rooms, just lockers, and people of all ages and sex were changing in front of each other. There was no prudishness and the old grannies were just as happy to strip off as the toddlers.

It's not a norm here though.

Your argument involves a massive shift in very embedded norms - including it being natural and expected to 'call out' anyone doing anything even slightly dodgy.

The argument also supports total unisex. It's often pointed out that if blokes come into the ladies then we'd be safer in the gents.

Also it's male behaviour that means unisex. So it's men as a group that need to change. Both in not being creepy. And for non creeps to not stand for it.

Additionally the men I've known do not feel comfy taking all their clothes off even in male spaces.

Men are therefore prudish too.

I never understand really what point these types of comments are supposed to make!

"the GRA SPECIFICALLY does not allow even those women/transmen with a GRC so legally male - they are specifically excluded from inheriting hereditary titles or land/estates.

Which rather shows you where the power is, doesn’t it?"

Well, it certainly shows you where the double standard is.

Really it’s the same guy?
The links no longer working to the article but if it’s the same guy then the police in this investigation will be made to look really very stupid & negligent won’t they?

@CowJumping

Maybe if transmen demanded inheritance rights we’d start to see some action at the top?

That won’t happen under the current Gender Reassignment law in England and Wales. Even though the GRA allows for the legal fiction of changed sex, and allows people to legally establish their changed sex (ha!) in a Gender Reassignment certificate (GRC) after following the legal procedures for gender reassignment (which are still the law whatever the TRAs think) - the GRA SPECIFICALLY does not allow even those women/transmen with a GRC so legally male - they are specifically excluded from inheriting hereditary titles or land/estates.

Which rather shows you where the power is, doesn’t it?

This is amazing. So TMAM , UNLESS it means they might inherit a title or family property under male primogeniture, in which case fuck no you’re a woman and get back in your box. And presumably TWAW, BUT still a man if it means a title or…

What’s going to happen is, some parents are going to remove their girls from sports where the kids have to use off site facilities.

Why can’t the facilities close to the public during x - x time?
If only one pool, or one changing room.

I don’t remember seeing any adults apart from teachers and pool staff when I had swimming lessons when at school. Admittedly, Noah had only just finished his cruise.

At what point can a parent start questioning safeguarding?
Given this is the US, at what point can a parent start suing?
There must be a tipping point or provision within legislation for this?

@Driftingblue

It’s the NYPost, so grain of salt and all, but they are reporting that the suspect in the WiSpa incident is the same individual from this episode.

Just posting this again as a few posters seem to have missed this- this is an old thread bounced because it may be topical again…

I can’t read the link as it’s been removed. The WI spa bloke is on the sex offenders register and failed to declare it. If it is the same bloke, that’s a total lack of safeguarding from the showering event because he should have been identified as a known sex offender.

Here is the thread discussing this www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4338925-Good-news-on-the-WI-Spa-incident?pg=1

If you don’t want to read the whole thing, here’s the news article about it nypost.com/2021/09/02/charges-filed-against-sex-offender-in-wi-spa-casecharges-filed-against-sex-offender-in-notorious-wi-spa-incident/amp/?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR1e_ws81-vaALSlUfdhuYlufJNoLzR31q-WII_WCUISsfR5Rnvx-21RtFc

Surely the issue here isn't the sharing of spaces but that young girls/women cannot share or report when they feel uncomfortable or at risk to someone in authority without being labelled a bigot.