Did anyone watch Loose Women today?

[MrsScamander]

They were discussing whether transgender people should have access to the ward of the sex they identify as.

3 of the presenters brought up the valid concerns of the safety of women but it seems Stacey Solomon thinks that its terribly unkind of women to not feel comfortable having penis in their personal space when they're vulnerable in a hospital ward.

We should ignore our own discomfort because a transwomen doesn't feel comfortable on a ward full of men 😑

Generally I like Stacey, but I cannot agree with her disregarding the concerns surrounding putting male bodies in spaces with vulnerable women. Apparently Karen White is a rare example of someone abusing self ID, so we should ignore that it happened because it doesn't happen often.

Women are collateral damage.

I think the stuff around wanting single sex wards has been rumbling around for a long time, Weetabix. The direction of travel seemed to be towards it because mixed sex is not at all popular. This whole thing rather undercuts that.

Presumably the ward you mention isn't claiming to be single sex, which, while it would not be my preference, is different to claiming to be single sex and not being.

Don't think so weetabix. It's recognised by cqc that it's not always possible and in ICU / CCU staff levels are very high, pts mostly immobile / unwell and resources limited ( so to have single sex provision would need to travel further).

Ah thank you.

I was wondering how they were getting away with it but that makes sense, particularly about the high staff to patient ratio.

They probably asked her to follow that opinion so it could be debated.
Who knows (or cares) what she actually thinks.

It's like Girlguiding and the rest of it. If you want to change a space/organisation from single sex to single gender (ie mixed sex) then be upfront about it and and be willing to explain the basis for the change, to say whether there's been a study of possible impacts on safeguarding, and to accept questions and answer them frankly. For example "it's a change we want to do to reflect changing society but we don't know what the impact might be".

It's this kind of thing that's contributing to an erosion of public trust in institutions/media/politics.

I notice there's a petition of protest about those nasty Transphobic women on Loose Women, and a PN article is carrying a quote that they should all have 'compulsory training' before they are allowed to talk about these issues.

A group of hugely apologetic women dare to talk about an issue which affects them, in the mildest, most reticent way possible, and the AWAs are clamouring for their forced reeducation.

I feel that Feminism Chat could adopt the age-old chant of Millwall fans: "No one likes us, we don't care."

I feel that Feminism Chat could adopt the age-old chant of Millwall fans: "No one likes us, we don't care."

Millwall, who didn't have the balls to host a We Need to Talk event....

The DM has an article about Loose Women viewers branding Gloria Hunniford ‘transphobic’ www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-6582205/Loose-Women-viewers-SLAM-Gloria-Hunniford-calls-transgender-women-she.html

yeah, the DM said that people are slating Gloria (by people, we're talking about the woke sort on twitter)
Gloria said what most of the general public think.
I don't want to share a ward with a man and a male bodied person is not a woman.
Strange how the two guys on Jeremy Vine were saying what Gloria said and getting no stick for it whatsoever (and frustrating that men seem more openly and confidently gender critical than women)

and to clarify, when I say 'not a woman' I mean not a literal woman. They can identify as a woman, but if they're male bodied, they're male.

I notice there's a petition of protest about those nasty Transphobic women on Loose Women, and a PN article is carrying a quote that they should all have 'compulsory training' before they are allowed to talk about these issues.

Can't help but think this is in retaliation for the indigenous speakers at the recent library talk with Meaghan M, where they complained that some non-indigenous types (presumably pro-TRA) had co-opted their culture in asserting that all North American indigenous people recognised 5 genders or some such crap. They basically said no-one had the right to speak on behalf on any Indigeous group unless they had been born into that group. Also that their particular group were tolerant of cross-dressers etc but in any clash of competing rights, women, as the childbearing sex, always, always took preference. That was understood by all involved. And cross-dressers etc were on an invite-only basis to any women's group and if any woman felt uncomfortable, they wouldn't be invited in / would be asked to leave.

So now we get a parroting repeating that no one can comment about TG unless training, as though the only ones impacted are them and that if people don't share their beliefs, they have to be re-educated. So Maoist....ridiculous but you can bet some will buy into it.

It's the repeated insistence that women have no right to a specific opinion about this that I can't quite get over. It's vitally important to ask a trans person what they think, but it's totally verboten for women to discuss (and again I stress, in the most anodyne of ways) their views on their own healthcare access.

It's astonishing.

It's the repeated insistence that women have no right to a specific opinion about this that I can't quite get over. It's vitally important to ask a trans person what they think, but it's totally verboten for women to discuss (and again I stress, in the most anodyne of ways) their views on their own healthcare access.

It's astonishing.

This! and also a great stand-over intimidation tactic.....you dare raise a dissenting voice, in asserting your needs, and the wrath of the TRA-mob is cast upon you

That's why I go with AWA/Anti-woman Activist mostly, not TRA. This kind of behaviour is self evidently not about basic rights for trans people, it's about shutting up the women.

I don't need "educated" out of my very sensible wariness of male strangers, thanks, PenisNews.

Interesting to note that the only comment on the daily mail article is in support of Stacey Solomon but has over 600 ‘down votes’ (I’m not sure of the terminology) cf about 150 upvotes so still the general public is not buying the TRA bullying

I could find the penis news article! Have they pulled it I wonder....

I did see this. Such hatred from our woke friends. How dare a woman not preach out truth speak , especially an older one.

SS isn't the brightest button in the box tbf. I doubt the ramifications for women's rights and safety popped into her head once.

Sorry not read the whole thread but just saw this on Twitter. Here is the Sun article about it.
www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/8171671/gloria-hunniford-offends-loose-women-viewers-transgender/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

we have to LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN endlessly to what Transwomen want. Why wont we all listen to what women want for a change, eh? Just a thought.

SS isn't the brightest button in the box tbf. I doubt the ramifications for women's rights and safety popped into her head once.

I was about to say similar. You wouldn't have her for 'phone a friend', would you? If she has the faintest clue about the ramifications of this policy I'll eat my hat.

I've been a patient often, there are always confused elderly women on the ward. Often they wake you up in the night "I'm worried I've left the gas fire on," "where can I catch a bus." There are no staff on the wards to supervise this interaction, they are at a station elsewhere. Imagine the old lady finds a person who appears to be a bloke, male face and body, unisex hospital gown, no make up etc. how can she actually tell?

You also share a toilet, often you are really drugged up and won't notice you are flashing everyone which is why they go round to help ensure you are "decent" before visiting hours. You can also hear the medical conversations of all the other patients with the doctors, often asking intimate questions.

I think people who have only been on a maternity ward - where there are people awake and staff around all night, where most people are not actually ill, not to mention it's a ward which will never have a TW patient, do not really know what it's like. That is a lot of young people. Even as a visitor you get the sanitised version.

It's awful that they're targeting Gloria. But it's amazing that she spoke up in the first place.

It's pretty characteristic that rather than listening to feminists, it's the reaction of transactivists to your doubts, which makes people dig their heels in.

The absence of moderation, of any kind, gets peoples backs up. Particularly those people who have been allies. They feel they deserve to be listened to.

And when they get shafted, they get pissed off.

Martina Navratilova, is a current case in point.