Did anyone watch Loose Women today?

[MrsScamander]

They were discussing whether transgender people should have access to the ward of the sex they identify as.

3 of the presenters brought up the valid concerns of the safety of women but it seems Stacey Solomon thinks that its terribly unkind of women to not feel comfortable having penis in their personal space when they're vulnerable in a hospital ward.

We should ignore our own discomfort because a transwomen doesn't feel comfortable on a ward full of men 😑

Generally I like Stacey, but I cannot agree with her disregarding the concerns surrounding putting male bodies in spaces with vulnerable women. Apparently Karen White is a rare example of someone abusing self ID, so we should ignore that it happened because it doesn't happen often.

Women are collateral damage.

TRAs:
It's disgusting when people dismiss trans women by saying humans with penises are male. Why aren't you kind? Why don't you think about feelings?

Also TRAs:
That hag should burn for her opinion.

I think they peak hate older women. They seem to get the most vile comments in terms of attacks on appearance and this witch hunting type comment.

The old woman who is popular in the community has disobeyed menfolk and now should burn.

How obvious do they want to make it?

It's like the comments they made about Jenni Murray, and Ann Widecombe.
It's fine not to agree with them.
It's not fine to hurl vile personal abuse at them.

TRAs you don't like people mocking your personal appearances so stop throwing stones

I've been a visitor on a number of wards (visiting elderly relatives). Even when a female relative had a private room (on a mixed ward) there were two men who were pests. One (older man with dementia) 'kept forgetting' where his room was and trying to get into bed with elderly women instead. Funny how he never mistook another man's room for his. The other was a sex-offender with mental health issues who was being shadowed by security. I was warned not to interact with him. This is just one example of one hospital stay. There are others. I guess this shows a problem already exists and that we need to ensure that hospitals are safe spaces for women, not open the door to potential assault and abuse further.

A relative was in a locked section of a local hospital which was for people with dementia and various alcohol-related MH problems. Our relative kept complaining about men making passes at her, we thought she was delusional until my sister visited and saw a man shadowing her. Turned out she wasn't imagining the man who 'kept forgetting' to tie the belt of his pyjama bottoms either, so that the trousers would fall down.

Christ, you'd think you'd be safe from sex pests when you'r 80, wouldn't you?

Apparently, dementia can bring out tendencies that a more rational mind was able to contain :(.

Funny how the feelings of 4 elderly women being sexually harassed / frightened and intimidated on a hospital ward don't even appear on the radar of trans activists (or Stacey S). The lack of empathy and care would be staggering if it didn't completely fit with their profile of narcissism with no boundaries.
And even other commentators completely lose the ability to remember who is the victim in the face of TRA intimidation.

When I was hospitalized a couple of years ago (first time in my 40 odd years apart from maternity wards), there was one old lady with dementia who would strip off all the time and another who used to try and get into bed with me. Both were very vulnerable and the rest of the ward were very protective of them both as, although the 8 bed bay we were in was female, the ward itself was mixed.

There were several times when male patients wandered round to look for a nurse (or so they said).

Women in a vulnerable state should have the right to be free from m male bodied individuals and it shouldn’t need to be justified.

Years ago when I spent some time working in care I had the very occasional elderly man ask me if it was possible for him to have a male carer as he felt that his dignify and comfort were better protected by being cared for by a man instead of a young woman. At the time I wasn't at all offended, completely understood his feelings and merely said that I'd speak to my manager and try to arrange that for him. Now, reading the reaction towards Gloria sharing her opinions I realise just how wrong I was and that really I should have viciously berated those men, accused them of being a woman hater and told them that they deserved to die in a fire for the crimes of being old and daring to have an opinion. I'm so grateful to the TRAs and their supporters for showing me the true path.

I saw that section of LW yesterday. I don't think Stacey Solomon had any deep understanding of the issue at all. She's usually very giggly and girly, but seemed to be adopting a serious face, to tell off her older colleagues on the panel for not being nice to men (although of course they're really women). It was woke in action. Shameful.

The others were squirming with their "oh it's so hard", "maybe there just isn't a solution that suits everyone" narrative. I was annoyed that they just couldn't say what they obviously felt without trying to be so NICE - but to men of course, not to women.

I think the TRAs do hate older women particularly. Their image of a woman to copy in terms of dress, hair, make up, etc is generally a pornified glossy version of femaleness. An older woman, and especially one who isn't on board with the mainly youthful woke nonsense spouted by the likes of Stacey Solomon, is not, I'm sure, their idea of "living as a woman."

When they say they were born in the wrong body I'm sure they're thinking the body should have been more like Stacey, less like Gloria.

The lack of empathy and care would be staggering if it didn't completely fit with their profile of narcissism with no boundaries.

Absolutely.

I guess when you construct an identity as opposed to having an identity it's always potentially a house of cards. When I see or hear some sexist crap being spouted I have a range of reactions. But it never makes me question my feelings around my gender or biological sex. I never want to fire bomb someone's house, or do them physical harm, as a result.

All women have equal rights to have an opinion though even if it is different from others.

KitsandCaboodles

Actually I think your post highlights the fact that most men, particularly elderly men, are just expected to put up with female nurses and carers in a way that most women are not expected to have male nurses and carers. It would be shocking if a woman were bed bathed or had their catheter changed or the bottom wiped by an unchaperoned male nurse or carer yet this happens every day, hundreds of times over to men in hospital and at home.

Women and men should both have the same respect given when it comes to intimate care being given by someone of the opposite sex.

I absolutely agree Weetabixand Shreddies. Dignity is so important for men too. The only spanner in the works is that there are far more female carers and nurses than there are men. The care sector badly needs more male careers for this reason and others. It's a real problem but I find that so many men wouldn't consider it for a minute.

Dignity is important for everyone. Men should ideally have the choice too. An very elderly male relative was in a ward for a heart problem last year and he was very anxious about being on a mixed ward and though dignity was his main concern he was also worried about making women feel uncomfortable or afraid too.

I don't think the problem is men are getting washed by women, it's more that for some reason we as a gender are hypersensitive to these issues. If a nurse is a man or woman doesn't matter to me, they are a professional, and they can wash me if they are a "nurse" or a "doctor", I am not looking at their gender.

I'm not looking at their gender either. I can't see it if indeed it exists, but I can see their sex.

You really can't think of any reasons why women as a class have more reason to be concerned than men about the sex of the person providing medical treatment or personal care? That said there are some men for whom this is an issue too, and that should be respected, and I'd say that a lot of men, possibly most, would not feel comfortable being on mixed sex wards.

BusyBarbara. Surely you can think of some reasons why the sex of the person administering medical or personal care matters very much to some individuals too? It might not be an issue for you, but it certainly is for many, many women and it's essential that it is respected.

TootTootPeanutButter

I agree, the shortage of male nurses/carers does make this a difficulty to solve.

I just noticed while I was a nurse that no one ever considered whether a man was comfortable with being cared for by female staff. It was just never a consideration and yet it was always at the forefront when women were cared for by a male nurse or doctor. Male drs were always chaperoned when examining female patients and male nurses never gave intimate care to female patients. Yet with male patients the possibility that they might feel just as embarrassed or uncomfortable was never considered.

Whereas if nursing was seen as a gender neutral job, and paid a decent wage, it wouldn't be such an issue would it? Because there would be more male nurses prepared to work with men.

And if wishes were horses beggars would ride.

We are where we are. I just think it needs acknowledging that men can be just as uncomfortable receiving care from a female nurse as woman can from a male nurse. It might have changed now but at the very least I think men should be asked first and a male nurse provided where available.

Except that many men wouldn’t want to have intimate care done by another male because of unconscious (or conscious) homophobia.

I know several men who have requested female HPC’s because it would “be weird” to have a man attending to them.

Also men know that men sexually assault at higher rates than women, even if they are unwilling to verbally acknowledge it, and many do not want to put themselves in that vulnerable position.

I think there would be an outcry from men if it were mandated that all intimate care should be provided by a same sex HCP.