I used the girls' room for the first time today

[GrinitchSpinach]

from reddit mtf:

all comments affirming. They are delighted to have actual women apologizing for being in the 'wrong' place in the women's room. Absolutely no understanding of the fear any woman or girl might feel encountering a male person in a vulnerable, isolated space. Also: "little girls' room" for a 19 y.o. person...

Datun's ability to stay reasonable under extreme provocation sometimes makes me wonder if she was dropped in calming potion as a baby, like Obelix but resulting in mental rather than physical super strength.

Agreed. Datun also manages to say in six words what I've struggled to get at in six lonnnnnng posts

Do I have to feel comfortable with this?
I feel like I'm being forced to.

Women are being told that, even if they have a history of suffering at the hands of men, have religious objections, or simply want to say ‘no’, that they’re transphobic for feeling uncomfortable or unsafe, when being forced to accept male bodied people in areas traditionally keep for females. The person with the male body has more right to their need for validation, that you have the right to object.

Think about it! Women, like your grandmother, mother, sister or daughter are being told that they can no longer say ‘NO’ to those with male bodies. If they do so, they will be called names, threatened with violence and the male bodied person’s wants will be put before her needs.

Ironically, the type of male bodied person that will demand access to female only spaces, without having any empathy with the females there, will insist they ‘feel like a woman’. They may also the type of
Person that will be screaming “no sharia law here” because they don’t want THEIR rights interfered with. The irony.

Love the fact that this is the post before mine!

Agreed. Datun also manages to say in six words what I've struggled to get at in six lonnnnnng posts

Oops. 😁

Have there been any reliable polls done on the wider views of women?

I gather that people who identify strongly as feminists are in the minority of women (don't mean that goadily) but the matter is arguably obfuscated by the obliviousness of the general public who aren't very up to speed on identity politics.

The phrase 'terf' certainly carries a negative stigma, yet it's a fair argument that large numbers of those in the media represent a certain type of demographic (e.g. I've heard that the BBC are very much on the trans boat) so perhaps much of the criticism we read doesn't reflect the view of the average person.

fairplayforwomen.com/poll/

FPFW commissioned this poll. I think another was done, too, wasn't there?

That's an interesting read.

From skimming through it, my assumption that it's the younger woke generation who seem to be most behind the trans dogma is correct.

In the 18-24 group, the majority regard a transwoman as a woman and nearly as many believe they should be allowed to use female changing rooms as don't.

The question remains as to whether they are naive or the older generations are behind the curve.

perhaps much of the criticism we read doesn't reflect the view of the average person

The politics of the past few years has happened as a result of politicians thinking that the public must be thinking what they have been told to think.

If our "betters" don't start realising that the public should be permitted to have their own views, and to manage politics to respond to this, then we're going to have chaos.

There have been quite a few polls, egg. Most people are not on board. And they don't even know the half of it.

Go onto any newspaper or online article and take a look at the comments. Take a look at the upvotes and downvotes.

The general public think that transwomen means someone without male genitals, who has gender dysphoria, or is 'born in the wrong body'. They sympathise.

But given the facts, that sympathy dries up. Because it's fairly obvious how men are taking advantage.

There are only 5000 gender recognition certificates issued. I don't see how anyone can think that cross dressers or transvestites should be able to dismantle sex segregation.

I would guarantee the outcome of any proper survey that explains the situation.

The question remains as to whether they are naive or the older generations are behind the curve.

Well, until someone can explain how changing sex segregation will benefit anyone who isn't trans, it's not a distinction that I believe holds water.

I'm sure someone will remember the video, that I can't recall the name of, where a man was on a university campus asking the students that if he identified as a woman would they accept it. Almost universally they said yes.

He got as far as saying if I identified as a five foot one Chinese woman would you accept it, and they still said yes.

With answers like that, calling them naive is flattering.

in the 18-24 group, the majority regard a transwoman as a woman

Is this from Q2?
18-24 years
From the graph, 38% regard the transwoman as a woman
34% regard the transwoman as a man

the remainder (28%) is I would not regard them as a man or a woman / prefer not to say / I dont know

The majority do not regard a transwoman as a woman (62%)

He got as far as saying if I identified as a five foot one Chinese woman would you accept it, and they still said yes.

It was a video from the . Obviously, being on the right anything they say must be suppressed.

I think another was done, too, wasn't there?

There was one by Wings of Scotland (?)

Pink News published one (not sure who commissioned it) around the start of the GRA consultation

The Times had a recent poll

The last British Atitudes survey included some questions

There's a woman in the video nauticant linked who said something like - it's not my place to say someone is wrong or draw lines and boundaries.

I'm not sure I'd have a problem with somebody identifying as a 5'2 Chinese woman (although might find it a little hilarious). However, I certainly wouldn't believe they were one.

it's not my place to say someone is wrong or draw lines and boundaries.

Where does this come from? It smacks of grooming.

Gotta say, however, that the state of some men's toilets is almost reason enough to want to identify as female for 10 mins!

Where does this come from? It smacks of grooming.
Moral relativism.

And describing the need for some justification as narcissistic is hilarious. Give me half your salary. Don't ask what's in it for you, that would be narcissistic. Just send it to my PayPal. PM me for the address. Cheers.

Yes, exactly.

it's not my place to say someone is wrong or draw lines and boundaries.

Well that's a bit alarming, and I can't help but notice that it's specifically young women saying that. Grooming, indeed.

Note to young women - it is absolutely your place to draw boundaries, and anyone who tells you otherwise is not your friend.

That's a great video.
I work in education and I can guarantee that if someone tried to get in where I work, no matter who or what they said they were, they would not be allowed in on the basis of "well I believe I'm entitled to be here." We are regarded as very ott on security though, and rightly so.
I think this is great at showing the opposition to anyone being able to use female only spaces.

It also shows what it takes to make people see the obvious.
Do you really think it's ok to allow an adult male to access provision for 7 year olds unchallenged? Just because he identifies as a child.

It's all very emperors new clothes.

There was one by Wings of Scotland (?)
That's Wings Over Scotland, a very popular Scottish political blog. The poll results are here: wingsoverscotland.com/the-law-that-nobody-wants/
Stuart Campbell, who runs the blog, is a very Marmite kind of bloke - you either love him or loathe him. But he always knows his stuff and isn't afraid of debate. He's also on the side of GC women - in fact, it was his tweets about the trans debate that got me 'peaked'.

GrumpyGran8
Thank you. I couldn't remember much about it.

threads:
May 2018
OP AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth wrote:
"Wings Over Scotland commissioned a survey re self ID in England. Had previously done one for Scotland in Jan.

The report can be found here
wingsoverscotland.com/girls-and-boys/

Summary
SCOTLAND (excluding DKs)

Good idea: 23.3%
Bad idea: 76.7%

ENGLAND (excluding DKs)

Good idea: 25.4%
Bad idea: 74.6%

The report is interesting reading. For anyone not familiar, WoS is a pro independence site. Also Gender Critical."
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3257955-Survey-of-support-for-Gender-Self-ID-in-England

January 2018
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3128970-Horray-for-Wings-Over-Scotland

October 2018 OP TigerDrankAllTheWaterInTheTap wrote:
"Poll: 52% of people consider a person who was born male and has male genitalia but identifies as a woman to be a man

twitter.com/helenstaniland/status/1055128928174641153

Interesting results. It's a properly conducted opinion poll which Helen Staniland crowdfunded."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3404335-Poll-52-of-people-consider-a-person-who-was-born-male-and-has-male-genitalia-but-identifies-as-a-woman-to-be-a-man