Prostitution / Pornography/ Surrogacy.

[Cismyfatarse1]

Help!

DS who is ridiculously clever, 18 and knows everything has been, along with DD (16) (Alsoclever but prepared to admit to not knowing everything) arguing amicably with me on and off all day.

Both of them were arguing that women should be free to choose to be prostitutes / porn stars / rent out their wombs.

I disagreed vehemently because we can't have laws that allow exploitation of the most vulnerable. Plus, these (particularly the first two) make women commodities for men.

Any clear arguments I can use? Links? Sources.

DS - who is gay - didn't see that if prostitution was so desirable a job, then men would do it. He also didn't see that consent is not really consent if you are vulnerable or being groomed / exploited. His life has been quite comfy. DD - no real life experience, didn't get that, as women, we are often seen as vessels for carrying / entering and that a penis in your mouth / cunt / bum is very different from just being physically close with someone who you don't fancy.

Both of them insisted that porn is watched by lots of women and that porn star is a desirable job for some and that porn stars are safe.

I gave it my all but really do want them to SEE!! Their generation, they argue, is not uptight about sex so selling it is no big deal.

Thoughts?

I apologise for some of the abrupt language used, but I get very vexed when someone says 'I know guys who'd be happy to be sex workers' - because I just know they envisage free and easy sex with an array of beauties.

What they are not wanting to be part of is the reality of dirty, squalid men wanting to use and abuse them in mental and physical ways that are nothing short of repulsive. Nah, they really don't mean that - they just want the prettified / idealistic vision of sex work being a recreational activity with money thrown in for good measure.

It's horribly deluded.

I don't think any apology is needed for your contributions.

Just read the thread. Some excellent references to file.

How anyone can genuinely imagine women freely choose to have sex with a stream of grubby strangers, is beyond me.

But, OP, if your children ever read this thread and have an ounce of perception, posters like PJ should make them see why its imperative for him to convince kids like them.

PJ needs to convince both themself and others. And, if further proof were needed, derives a considerable amount of pleasure from telling women and explaining why it's ok for him to use other women as fuck holes.

These men are all very similar. Well what if it was like this, then would it be okay? How about this? Crafting a science fiction scenario where prostitutes are happy, healthy, well-paid and fulfilled. In order to justify them abusing unhappy, unhealthy poor, sad women.

One of the most disturbing things you can read is those websites where punters rate the women they abuse. The annoyance when the women don't even pretend to enjoy it. They know they're pretending. But they do want them to do it anyway. And they take it very personally if they don't.

Even a nanosecond of reflection will tell anyone exactly why it's not enjoyable to have a stream of grubby strangers penetrate your every orifice.

But one of the worst was when the men were saying they are so used to valuing women on the basis of paid sex with them, they do it to everyone. Even the young checkout girl at the supermarket. He said he can't help but look her over and in his head he's thinking £12, possibly £15. All women. Even family members.

Objectification does not get more explicit.

Objectification does not get more explicit.

Or squalid.

Podcast launched today: 'Anna talks about being groomed into prostitution and her subsequent 11 years in the sex trade'
(extract)
"Trixie from Nordic Model Now! talks with Anna, who was groomed into prostitution when she was a teenager in 1989 and then continued in that life on the streets of Leeds in the North of England for the next 11 years .

Her story shows the insidious nature of the grooming process, and the increasing use of violence and coercive control by her pimp, who was also her partner and the father to her three children. Anna speaks about the punters who paid for sex, the other women she was prostituted with, the connections with the local lap dancing club, and the long-term effects ‘the life’ has had on herself and her children. Her story is harrowing and contains descriptions of violence and abuse that you may find disturbing." (continues)

nordicmodelnow.org/2019/01/01/podcast-anna-talks-about-being-groomed-into-prostitution-and-her-subsequent-11-years-in-the-sex-trade/

Draw a comparison to alcohol, cigarettes and anything else that damages. Porn use is really bad for men and it isn't discussed, women gets the consequences as well. NoFap November was a real eye opener for a lot of zoomers. Focus on society rather than the individual.

www.yourbrainonporn.com/research/

What is interesting in many of these posts are the assertions without evidence that the majority of prostitutes or the majority of their clients are this or that.
So we have Torn asserting "……the overwhelming majority of participants are operating in less than salubrious conditions and funding addictions or operating as a last resort. Some are even doing it under physical duress" and again "…..That's certainly not a majority of men, but it's a very unhealthy minority” and again ". …….. the majority of sex workers do NOT want to be doing it. The majority of workers in the industry aren't in the best of places and need help to escape it, not a minority of folks promoting the supposed benefits of it." and again "…. the majority of women are doing it …. from absolute desperation." and again "…. the fact that the majority are not doing it for the joy of it, they are not doing it because it's well rewarded, they ARE doing it because they feel it's their only option - and as a result of that, they are frequently exploited and abused."

Thornyhousewife " the overwhelming majority of women and girls who are prostitutes…..are doing do under unimaginable duress, with no possible route out." and "...the majority of women and girls in prostitution don't have a choice, no?"

There is no way of sampling a representative cross section of those in prostitution to say whether the majority are this or that what you have is a series of assertions based on the belief of those making those claims. All that can be said is “some ” rather than the majority

Whatever pie. You go and suck multiple dicks every week for a living then if, it's so great. No? Thought not.

How many sex workers have you talked to pie?

"And if it were seen as a mainstream job if the unemployed were forced to do it"

This has came up many times before.

There was a case in Germany where a woman was offered a job in a brothel behind a bar serving drinks but this offer was completely optional with no penalty for declining it (some tabloids have reported this inaccurately).

No jobcentre in any country with legalised sexwork is ever going to offer an unemployed man or woman a job as a prostitute. They recognise that even though those jobs are legal they require intimacy which noone should be forced or coerced into

@pie oh don’t be naive, prostitution is a dangerous job, women who do it are at a much greater risk of injury/death. What do you think is happening? Also one of the arguments for legalising is to allow women to work together out if the same premises in order to be safer. What are they being made safer from pray tell?

There is no way of sampling a representative cross section of those in prostitution

There is. This funny old thing called ‘research methodology ’ exists.

2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ei/rls/38790.htm

Including women from five countries.
89% want to leave

Field research in nine countries concluded that 60-75 percent of women in prostitution were raped, 70-95 percent were physically assaulted, and 68 percent met the criteria for post traumatic stress disorder in the same range as treatment-seeking combat veterans[2] and victims of state-organized torture.[3] Beyond this shocking abuse, the public health implications of prostitution are devastating and include a myriad of serious and fatal diseases, including HIV/AIDS.

Nordic Model Now! article:
JANUARY 4, 2019
‘In every possible way, it felt like rape’
(extract)
"This is a new selection of #MeToo stories we’ve received through our Share Your Story page, where women can enter their experiences of the sex trade anonymously. Each story is important, moving and powerful, and reveals yet again the awful truth about prostitution – that it has no place in a society that aspires to equality between women and men, and fundamental human rights for all.

“No matter what anyone says, there are no happy Hookers! Prostitution is like letting yourself get raped again and again.” – Polish Princess"

Anonymous
Thank you so much for providing the material on your website. It helps me to realise what just happened to me. I am a sex trade survivor from Victoria, Australia [where the sex trade is legalised].

I was brainwashed into thinking ‘sex work’ is a legitimate job that could help me escape the poverty of my childhood and help me reclaim some of the power taken from me during sexual assaults. I was brainwashed by the local prostitution organisation, when I reached out for help, into believing prostitution was ‘empowering’ me.

I am 23 now and I have managed to turn my back on the industry for good.

I am disturbed by the culture here and wish the Nordic Model could be introduced to change the culture and stop women like myself from being brainwashed." (continues)

nordicmodelnow.org/2019/01/04/in-every-possible-way-it-felt-like-rape/