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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Can someone help me explain to DD14 why this isn't ok

176 replies

Inarticulated · 28/12/2018 13:51

DD is 14, and her dad (exH) gave her this for Christmas.

She says it's fine, it's from Missguided, and she likes it.

I think it's vile and don't want her to go out in it.

We just compromised that she wore a coat over it to go to the shop. In my mild horror all I could come up with was "but but it says 'for men's entertainment' on it", and that's not my point.

Please help me form a coherent argument that a 14yo might listen to?

Here is the link,should you want www.missguided.co.uk/playboy-x-missguided-black-magazine-print-oversized-print-hoodie-dress-10125564

Can someone help me explain to DD14 why this isn't ok
OP posts:
NothingOnTellyAgain · 29/12/2018 12:48

"Realistically, a giant all black hoody is not going to make her a particular target for rape (and even if it did, you wouldn't want to use that argument due to victim blaming, as you've said already)"

For me it's the advertising and support of an industry that has caused such harm that is the issue >
Like wearing a hoodie saying I love torturing animals or Mass murder is cool or something

The fact that some men will see it as a great conversation opener is a side issue

I don't think anyone on here has suggested it will literally cause her to be raped. Not least becasue rapists don't rape women / girls because of what they are wearing. They may use it as an excuse after, and society may support many of them in that, but that's a different conversation.

FestiveNut · 29/12/2018 12:53

I agree with you, but this teenager may not. The industry has already been supported, the hoody has been bought. Op's DD is at a tricky age, as she's still a child but getting to the point where she's old enough to know her own mind and, at this age, the more OP rails against it, the more the DD might dig her heels in. It depends if this is the hill op wants to die on, so to speak.

Puggles123 · 29/12/2018 12:55

Forgetting the connection to Playboy even, the image itself is a bit grim for anyone- boy/girl, teen/adult. Has she said what in particular she likes about it?

FishCanFly · 29/12/2018 12:57

also Shock at FATHER giving something like this to a child. Its pretty distasteful. However, I wouldn't kick a big stink about it because in a teenager's mind it will become "cool" as it pisses off the grown ups.

Like wearing a hoodie saying I love torturing animals or Mass murder is cool or something
similar things exist, especially in "alternative" scene. Time and place for such things.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 29/12/2018 13:04

Yes agree with that totally FestiveNut.

AnnaMagnani · 29/12/2018 13:21

Presumably what she likes about it is that she thinks it is edgy/cool, knows her mum won't like it and she is discovering herself as a sexual being.

The fact it really is lame and past it, looks like she is advertising herself as someone who has an open vagina and is ready to suck cocks, and is linked with an ageing porn mag for sad old men has whooshed past her head.

woollyheart · 29/12/2018 13:53

She may go off it when she realises unsavoury youths are making comments and sniggering when she wears it.

selkiesolstice · 29/12/2018 13:57

I feel your pain. I'm shocked her own father bought that for her.

Phlippant · 29/12/2018 13:58

Agree with AnnaMagnani and woollyheart...

Hope the realisation of how 'ewww' it is, dawns on her before she gets embarrassed publicly about it.

As for her father OMG, I can see why he's an ex, what a weirdo!!

Phlippant · 29/12/2018 14:00

Sorry if I've missed it but OP, does she actually know what Playboy mag is?

Pulltheotheroneitsgotbellson · 29/12/2018 14:12

I imagine he's given it to her to intentionally cause an argument between you both - he's a prize shit that's for sure.

You could tell her she can't keep it at your place nor wear it whilst she's staying with you - it's up to her whether what she does at his place (assuming she shares time between you both). I would take the time to explain why it's so inappropriate and what messages it conveys about the wearer.

Or send it back to him and say it's inappropriate.

Take it out of her hands ....she's 14 not 24.

EduCated · 29/12/2018 16:31

Sadly, I don’t think she will get comments about it in public, at least not from people her own age, because images like that have become so normalised and commonplace that I don’t think they’ll really look twice, which isn’t really a pleasant thought tbh.

EduCated · 29/12/2018 16:32

Sadly in relation to the normalisation, obviously, I’m not wishing harassment on the DD!

Purpleartichoke · 29/12/2018 16:42

It’s a horrible jacket and her father is an idiot.

That said, you have explained to her why you object to the clothing. From a practical perspective, it looks like weather appropriate gear and wearing it will not cause her physical harm. I would restrict wearing it to school or a funeral, basically any place where respectful clothing is required. After that, I think you just have to cringe and let her get on with it.

Frequency · 29/12/2018 17:04

The teenagers I know would comment. Maybe not to the girl's face but they would discuss it in an unfavourable way between themselves. DD got comments about a hoodie she wore featuring a woman's bloody nose as her friends assumed it was a picture of domestic violence.

It wasn't. It was from a music album called Bloodlust and was supposed to represent vampirism and self-harm. The band didn't sing about violence against others. DD got quite frustrated that people thought she would wear something promoting violence against women. She's way too woke and cool for that. Feminism, though badly understood by them, is a hot topic with a lot of teenage girls in my limited experience.

Frequency · 29/12/2018 17:10

That's why I mentioned older relatives or cool aunties in my original post. I don't know any teenage girl who would willingly promote Playboy. More because they think it's lame and the domain of creepy old men than they think it exploits women. They're fine with women who sell naked selfies on Instagram it's the likes of Hugh Hefner they object to. Their understanding of feminism doesn't seem to have reached the point where they think about socialisation and sexualisation of young women and the effect that has.

Nakedness is cool. Creepy men are lame.

MrsSiba · 29/12/2018 17:58

Just checked out OPs link.. The item is described s as a hoodie dress! A dress! Wtf?!

(misses point of thread)

MNHQ
RivkaMumsnet · 30/12/2018 15:16

We've had a few reports about this thread and just wanted to pop on with our usual reminder that Mumsnet is about making parents' lives easier, so let's have a bit of peace and love if poss.

staydazzling · 30/12/2018 15:42

tbh i think at 14 youre going to push her the other way, like another poster ask her about it ,like if shes advertising herself as entertainment for men? in a semi curious tone, she'll cringe so hard she will at least stop wearing it infront of you Grin all the outrage would have done was make me more keen to rebel, i used to have a Malteser top that said man teaser. Blush

hen10 · 30/12/2018 16:17

I guess it could work ironically with a pair of massive hobnail boots, a filthy pair of builder's jeans, a beanie over unwashed hair and an aggressive look. Might be clutching at straws though.

Original poster
Inarticulated · 30/12/2018 21:36

@hen10
Her 17yo sister suggested she wear the 'dress' (it is huge) with some fishnet tights and thigh high boots "for parties".

I'm choosing to believe she was massively taking the piss.

OP posts:
NothingOnTellyAgain · 30/12/2018 21:50

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FestiveNut · 31/12/2018 07:29

Wasn't me, Telly, honest!

NothingOnTellyAgain · 31/12/2018 11:12

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NothingOnTellyAgain · 31/12/2018 11:14

"If you think "that coat/hoodie/ whatever looks really cheap" implies cheap in a sexual sense you should examine your own prejudices and use of language.

"Cheap" in a sexual sense is not a meaning that would ever enter my head, let alone use. I'm rather surprised someone, who I assume thinks of herself as a feminist, would give "cheap" any meaning other than "not expensive"."

Here.

No apology.

Suspect someone is pressing teh report button frantically as we speak, for the heinous crime of cutting and pasting.

Honestly, to be accused of being prejudiced against teenage girls,seeing them as sex objects, seeing them as fodder for fucking and judging them in terms of virgin / whore, which is what this is saying, it's incredibly offensive.