Why my transgender son dosent want self ID

[justanothetnamechange]

HI all, so I've been wanting to make this post for a while but I hire honest Ive been scared to but tonight I'm going for it.
I'm a regular user but have obviously name changed for this.
So I frequent this board often but have never posted before, I am very much for women's rights- as many of us are!! My world turned upside down 6 years ago when my son started having conversations with with us reguarding his gender identity, tbh to begin with I constantly shot him down, but realised that there was no harm in changing his prounouns and name if that what makes him comfortable, although this choice toke a couple years and a lot of arguments! We didn't rush into anything, at school he used disabled toilets and he didn't do PE anyway as it was extra catch up. But wasn't going to do medication at this stage- he could make this choice as an adult if that's what he wanted. He went under CAMHS. That brings us to 2018 he is know 18 years old so it's all very much his choice. He is soon to be assed for testosterone.
I don't want this post to be to much about his journey and please don't go on about how he will never be biologically a man, he knows this he is a proud trans man. This is how self ID would ruin that.
it brings another side of the argument that people might not have always thought about.
My son has gone through a lot of challenges and mile stones to be where he is today they have been emotional.
He feels self ID would take away these milestones.
He recently got his passport through saying male, to do this we had to get two doctors reports and a MH report and proth he was living as his gender. When it came through he cried, celebrated and went for a drink.
He was recently allowed to play for a male football team to do this he needed club approval, a doctors report party and proth he was going to medically transition. He needed to be present for a pane. He just played his first game it was celebrated and a good game to watch.
He works as a man and is treated as a man. But it took a lot of battles.
He is soon to apply for a GRC something he feels is the final step for social transition.
But when he tells people he is transgender he feels people accept him more when he says he's had to go through this. He feels genuine. He under stands sex segregation and respects men's boundary's. He only changes in the male changing room at football for example because they had a meeting about it and everyone said it was fine and even then he come in at the end when everyone's changed to take part in the talks etc.
He doesn't like the idea that someone could say I'm trans one day and get all the rights he's fort for. He doesn't like the idea that people who don't understand transition will come into sex segregated spaces. He doesn't like that he won't feel his long struggles will be looked on in the same way as they were before. This one may sound Selfish- He Dosent like that already stressed resources will become even more stressed as boundary's to be accepted will weaken. He wants to be accepted and knows he won't by everyone but in his opinion it happens more when he has that M in his passport and plus for his local team and when everyone can do this it's not as real. His struggles aren't as real. His battles aren't as real. His tears aren't as real. He feels even more invalidated. when he was 17 we talked about the GRC and he said how happy he'd feel when it came through and how he would have a weight lifted from his shoulders know someone wants to take away from this.
I hope this was right to post and makes sense!!
If anyone has any questions my son and me are happy to try and answer them.
I'm going to go put my hard hat on and hide in a corner just in case!

Hey Hamster - informative, reasoned posts as always.

I’ve been waiting for you to pop back up on the board - I vaguely recalled you saying a while ago you had an upcoming surgery? And then no posts for a bit = mumsy Betty hoping you’re ok/worrying/waiting for news 😬

Im finding this thread confusing. Your child is opposed to self I'd, but in a way they have self I'd.

Aww thank you Betty. I'm fine thank you. Still grumpy, incredibly bored now, sore and feeling a bit sorry for myself - but otherwise very much ok.

Just keeping a low profile about it all really.

Hamster

Hamster's posts are spot on. I agree and it is the difference between transsexual (who has GD) and transgender (who want to express stereotypes through changing lifestyle).

Thankfully the person this thread is about appears to be transsexual not transgender. I hope that they stay away from trans activism as it is an insidious force that will try to appropriate their experience and eat away at the sensible perception this family seem to have.

The single most idiotic thing this government is doing (and it has a lot of competition) is wanting to equivocate a law written 15 years ago for 5000 medically treated, psychiatrically assessed and counselled people who understand reality and know they need that kind of support for reasons of personal health and safety and their wider responsibility to the community at large.....

.....with 500,000 dreamers and gender benders and cross dressers and fetishists who have many different reasons for wanting to take part in a kind of role play fantasy. And who as a consequence have no desire for doctors or psychiatrists to 'interfere' in their 'rights' or care for how what they do might harm others.

Just reading the trans widows thread on here will show quickly why doing this is so foolish and heartbreaking.

These are two entirely different things with clearly different needs. Which is why the GRA was written as it was for transsexuals. And why it was able to see doctors accurately predict how many would qualify under it.

Why would any government conflate two entirely different things? perhaps it is a kind of trendy youth vote grab.

Just imagine if the law governing a woman's right for access to regular mammograms was rewritten so as to include those who like to stuff socks in their wife's bra whilst they are out so as to get a thrill. And they get that access without having to explain to anyone how or why they even want to do this....because it is their 'right' just to say so and make everyone agree.

But in essence that is exactly what is happening with self ID plans.

when everything else fails, a medical transition IS the only way forward - and as I've said in previous threads, the GD never truly goes away even after transition

This is the most tragic part of all of this, that even the most brutal and gruelling medical path undertaken does not cure the recognised condition or symptoms. To me that makes it unethical and opposed to the tenet "First do no harm".

We are told not to discuss this lest we cause upset. This is wrong.

Traumatic stories of surgery are exactly that when the surgery is both a cause of ongoing injury and an incredibly convoluted delaying tactic to avoid the fact that it is not possible to change sex.

I have nothing but sympathy for those affected by this experimentation. As I said earlier I have years of experience of the personal hardship presented by living with incurable physical issues and as a result cannot comprehend the illogical brutality of false hope being marketed to desperate victims.

false hope being marketed to desperate victims.

Sorry but many many transsexual people have been able to move on with their lives following treatment. It isnt a magic cure but it can still make a huge difference.

Do you have links to the evidence based studies showing this?

Womantheonly kind, I transitioned a long time ago and sadly in the name of 'freedom' things have gone backwards. It used to be the last resort in a lengthy process (several years) after other attempts were made to cure it via less drastic means. These had to be seen to fail before surgery was even considered. And you had to be proven of sound mind and fully aware of what you were doing or you were turned away.

It is madness to do anything less in a society where cheap drugs can be bought by kids on line and no questions asked clinics will do surgery at the end of an Easy Jet flight.

Governments should be tightening procedures and involvement of psychiatry - not considering dropping it all.

And, yes, long term if the right people with the right need are helped to transition it can work very successfully as a way to remove GD. I can attest to that.

But all too often and increasingly so today the wrong people seem to wave themselves through and regret rates - once very low when safeguards were in place - seem to be rising.

Everything about these self ID plans are bad. For women. For actual treanssexuals. And for the people helped to inappropriately transition easily in the name of human rights.

This should be something you have to really need and really have to persuade doctors and psychiatrists is the only way. Not something you can choose as if it is like deciding where to go on holiday next year.

Sorry but many many transsexual people have been able to move on with their lives following treatment. It isnt a magic cure but it can still make a huge difference.

Exactly this. It was the only way, after exhausting all other options, that I "personally" have been able to function and lead a normal life - and it's the same for many other transsexuals.

No there is no "cure" for it, because it will always be there to some degree. The way I explained it to a friend was akin to someone giving up smoking for 10 years and all of a sudden they get a craving for a cigarette. Day to day the feelings of GD aren't there as a "conscious all consuming thing" but sometimes it creeps up and blindsides you out of the blue.

Just playing devil's advocate here... what other options are available (or can be) when psychotherapy, counselling and pharmacological solutions have been exhausted? Is the GD sufferer supposed to continue living an absolutely miserable existence?

I disagree with Hamster only on the 'it never goes away' part. I have not had GD for many years now post transition. Until the last two or three years I hardly ever even thought about being transsexual. It was not necessary to do so day to day.

But it possibly had something to do with how the NHS handled this decades ago versus today. Nobody was allowed to have any surgery unless they absolutely understood you were not changing your biological sex and you were being accommodated by society not legalised. Hence the other ways tried first and you got turned away then if you were not regarded as suitable. And in the 60s and 70s you had to be rich to go abroad and seek help outside the NHS. Unlike today.

Remember there were no legal rights then at all. So you had to be committed to what you were doing because it was always going to be you living one way and legally still being another. You gave up the ability to have a family. And to get married. You lost a lot.

But it was a built in filter process that seems to have been entirely dispensed with these days.

It is likely not a coincidence that dissatisfaction has risen.

.....hardly ever even thought about being transsexual. It was not necessary to do so day to day.

I totally agree with this. I myself don't wake up in the morning and think "oh I'm transsexual". I, just get on with things, lead a quite boring life and that's pretty much it tbh.

Was just illustrating that "blindsiding" from my own personal experience. On a day to day basis I don't even give it a second thought - but it goes to show that we're not a homogeneous group and GD affects us in different ways

We have become over expectant of medicine as a society.

Medicine is wonderful and of course science is ever evolving but the importance of good mental health and teaching the skills needed for that cannot be underestimated and these skills are falling by the wayside and being undone by societal manipulation through social media etc.

There are many incurable conditions and disabilities affecting people who would love a magic wand to make everything perfect. Coping with such a condition is entirely possible with the right support and good mental health. Resilience can and should be taught.

The idea that an ongoing condition is a life ending or misery inducing permanent state is wrong. Living with difficult or unusual circumstances is entirely that - unusual. Whilst everything can and should be done to try to make life as easy as possible and as comfortable as the "usual" the fact is that everyone faces different difficulties and the trick is to learn to manage those difficulties, to learn the balance, to learn resilience.

I know many people coping with extraordinary conditions and disabilities in life. They have had times of hardship and have overcome. Medical solutions have been exhausted. They do not live an absolutely miserable existence once the possible medical options have been exhausted. People are incredibly capable of living happy and fulfilling lives in the face of extraordinary challenge. I include my own family in this and know how damaging victim mentality can be. As a society we should recognise victims of hardship and help them to overcome not to deny reality.

lass and hamster

Did you think of all that red tape as crucial at the time of your transition or do you think if you were transitioning now you would have been tempted to buy hormones online or go to a dodgy dr abroad.
Could you see that it was an important step even then?

Calvinsmam I wouldn't have bought hormones online because of the dangers, side-effects, monitoring required as I mentioned earlier. Also you can't be entirely sure that what's in the blister packs is regulated, safe and actually WHAT you are buying. I think it's highly irresponsible for anyone to self-medicate.

As for the process and red tape, I think yes, it was crucial. There needs to be safeguards, support and a strict medical process that has to be followed. I have a very strong transmedicalist viewpoint in this respect.

If anything, I think the processes now are more lax than they used to be, and things have become a lot worse since this re-defined umbrella. As I've stated before in other threads, the whole situation/process is not fit for purpose anymore.

There was no real red tape. Decades ago you could change your documents such as school records. And passport. You needed medical approval to the authorities do so. But that was enough for me to travel all over the world without a single issue.

I never expected or sought any other rights. I could not marry my partner but he was understanding of the situation and we made the most of it. A minister blessed us. That was 40 years ago.

When the GRA arrived it took me by surprise and my GP suggested he help me apply (all my GPs knew I was TS as it would have been stupid not to make sure they did when I registered).

There was no red tape. It was straightforward and took a few weeks as I recall. I have never had to use my GRC. But it is ridiculous that nobody can ask to see it. There should be a confidential register that appropriate places can check where necessary. It should not be a charter for deception.

I have no idea where the concept getting a GRC is hard comes from. It is only hard if you are not transsexual and do not want to go near doctors and psychiatrists who might well recognise that. And currently you need to be to qualify.

This is not about tweaking the rules to make it simpler. If it was nobody would be arguing. It is about removing the rules where presently a doctor has to approval legal change of birth records. Quite rightly that should be hard and medically determined. Not based on how you feel from day to day.

How do you feel about the concept of "deadnaming"?

I have no problem telling people my maiden name and filling out forms as such in order to give a full history. I can't wrap my head around why that would be an issue for anyone else.

As for the process of transition and getting NHS support being hard. It was and it should be.

I first talked to doctors before there were any clinics in the UK specialising in this and had no idea anything was possible or what was wrong. My first instinct was to talk to people and seek help as by about 10 I was well aware that knowing what sex you were conflicted to the point of incessant pain with what you just instinctively felt you should be was not normal. So, of course, you seek help.

It was hard in those days as a child talking to parents and teachers but you had to as it was eating you up. But also as you had no idea of magic cures ( I stopped praying to God that I wake up as a girl when about 8) so you wanted to know what was wrong and what to do about it.

Throughout my childhood I followed all suggested ways to get rid of it and promises it would go away. Nothing worked. When 18 they started medical experiments to try to make me become 'normal'. They did not. So I end up being studied by hospitals and psychiatrists and tried all methods they suggested too.

Going onto the medical transition pathway was not the first choice nor the second or third. Myself, my family and doctors went there as a last resort.

The roadblocks are there for very good reason. Just like traffic lights and stop signs are and taking them away would lead to disaster.

Yet that seems to be the plan here.

Not thought about 'deadnaming'. As I have lived all my adult and working life under my present name I have to remember I ever had another as a child. I actually used my old name as my middle name so never denied it. Unlike some of the transgender crowd out there who seem to invent really bizarre or porny names. Like many differences I see between transsexual and transgender it is very strange.

By the way changing a birth certificate does not remove the original from existence. It is still linked and can be found in any police investigation. Of course, they have to want to first.

That’s interesting, I was just wondering if it was one of those things that you can’t see is good for when you’re going through it.

My family were amazing and stood by me through this childhood that impacted them as much as it did me. I was not going to deny my identity as part of them. This was not about creating a new identity as someone else. It was only ever about living as who I was. So why would you deny any part of that?

used my old name as my middle name

That's a really good idea. So if you had changed later you would complete the formerly known as bits in security forms without issue? How does that work on forms that ask about sex?

Womantheonlykind

I absolutely understand what you are saying and in my own experience of having a partner with EUPD with psychosis, (and a chronic pain condition), and being the sole carer for my paraplegic mother, at the age of 14, after she had an accident - I can attest to that resilience in the face of extraordinary challenge. I myself have a bag that I just "get on with". People can and DO just get on with their lives.

The problem (and my point) is that there ARE no systems, facilities, services set up to treat GD apart from this distinct medical route - certainly not in my area at least. General psychiatry and psychology are not "geared up" to be able to deal with it. Even when sectioned under the MHA 15 years ago as an indirect cause of my GD, it was never dealt with. I was simply patched up and sent on my way with some wishy-washy aftercare and "breathing exercises".

I was never offered the ways to learn to manage those difficulties, to learn the balance, to learn resilience. Yes, that could be seen a failure of the medical profession or mental health workers - but that's all that was available and offered to me at the time.

The system is flawed in so many ways. It needs to be written from the ground up. It's not fit for purpose as it is now. You're right, perhaps if there WERE other options available to me then I wouldn't have had to / needed to transition.

Do I regret that I have? No, not one bit.

Also, picking up your later comments on deadnaming. I have absolutely no issue with it and will happily put my "former name" on forms that ask for it. You can't erase history after all.

My sex marker was changed long ago by doctors. Things like this used to happen on an individual case basis.

As it has been that way on my passport for most of my life I have not really thought it wise to contradict it. As potentially that might have created conflict with authorities and none of us were looking for that in the days before the GRA was even imagined.

I must admit I have never come across a form asking about former identity or if I did considered any implications about that. My records were all naturally aligned throughout.

Even today - 15 years after the GRA - I have issues with my tax return if they accidentally pass it on to the wrong department as those with a GRC must deal with a special department for the 4910 people so as to protect your identity by law.

I have had a few laughs with departments saying to me sheepishly - ooh, sorry. I cannot talk to you. I said is this because I am TS and they are more embarrassed than me when I do.

I tried last year to get this rule changed so that I could fill in tax on line (you cannot with a GRC it has to be submitted by paper). They suggested if I volunteered the fact that I was not bothered who knew about my status then they might be able to do this for me.

As you might imagine the computer said no!

there ARE no systems, facilities, services set up to treat GD apart from this distinct medical route

Isn't that terrible?

Mental health services are in crisis and maybe this needs to be focused on. Media is playing it's part by presenting impossibilities as fact and now the governments are joining in by creating myth accommodating law. Transgenderism is a symptom.