Why my transgender son dosent want self ID

[justanothetnamechange]

HI all, so I've been wanting to make this post for a while but I hire honest Ive been scared to but tonight I'm going for it.
I'm a regular user but have obviously name changed for this.
So I frequent this board often but have never posted before, I am very much for women's rights- as many of us are!! My world turned upside down 6 years ago when my son started having conversations with with us reguarding his gender identity, tbh to begin with I constantly shot him down, but realised that there was no harm in changing his prounouns and name if that what makes him comfortable, although this choice toke a couple years and a lot of arguments! We didn't rush into anything, at school he used disabled toilets and he didn't do PE anyway as it was extra catch up. But wasn't going to do medication at this stage- he could make this choice as an adult if that's what he wanted. He went under CAMHS. That brings us to 2018 he is know 18 years old so it's all very much his choice. He is soon to be assed for testosterone.
I don't want this post to be to much about his journey and please don't go on about how he will never be biologically a man, he knows this he is a proud trans man. This is how self ID would ruin that.
it brings another side of the argument that people might not have always thought about.
My son has gone through a lot of challenges and mile stones to be where he is today they have been emotional.
He feels self ID would take away these milestones.
He recently got his passport through saying male, to do this we had to get two doctors reports and a MH report and proth he was living as his gender. When it came through he cried, celebrated and went for a drink.
He was recently allowed to play for a male football team to do this he needed club approval, a doctors report party and proth he was going to medically transition. He needed to be present for a pane. He just played his first game it was celebrated and a good game to watch.
He works as a man and is treated as a man. But it took a lot of battles.
He is soon to apply for a GRC something he feels is the final step for social transition.
But when he tells people he is transgender he feels people accept him more when he says he's had to go through this. He feels genuine. He under stands sex segregation and respects men's boundary's. He only changes in the male changing room at football for example because they had a meeting about it and everyone said it was fine and even then he come in at the end when everyone's changed to take part in the talks etc.
He doesn't like the idea that someone could say I'm trans one day and get all the rights he's fort for. He doesn't like the idea that people who don't understand transition will come into sex segregated spaces. He doesn't like that he won't feel his long struggles will be looked on in the same way as they were before. This one may sound Selfish- He Dosent like that already stressed resources will become even more stressed as boundary's to be accepted will weaken. He wants to be accepted and knows he won't by everyone but in his opinion it happens more when he has that M in his passport and plus for his local team and when everyone can do this it's not as real. His struggles aren't as real. His battles aren't as real. His tears aren't as real. He feels even more invalidated. when he was 17 we talked about the GRC and he said how happy he'd feel when it came through and how he would have a weight lifted from his shoulders know someone wants to take away from this.
I hope this was right to post and makes sense!!
If anyone has any questions my son and me are happy to try and answer them.
I'm going to go put my hard hat on and hide in a corner just in case!

OKPedro yipes! It does sound like a lot of us have spent time trying to get guys to leave us alone.

You can't just use the experience of a number of people who may have transitioned and then regretted it.

Did you even read my post, weetabix? According to this person:

He said he had never received specialist medical advice or unbiased counselling before agreeing to hormone therapy and sex reassignment surgery.

Do you think all the other people who feel they are confused about their gender get this advice and counselling and it was unfortunate that he missed out? Or is it more likely that people in general are not getting this advice and counselling?

It's not about this one individual. It's about the affirmation only policy which appears to be widespread. People aren't getting the psychological support that they need, and just put on a conveyor belt of medication and surgery.

I've had OCD since my teens, denied it for years, it morphed into an eating disorder, reared its head as anxiety in my 30s, I am getting counselling now.

I know it is not the same thing.

But my point is that it is a number of things all mixed together. And for some I think maybe gender dysphoria may be like this too.

I don't think any of us here no what causes it or why it's apparently increasing. There are no doubt many factors which, yes is why it does need proper and thorough investigation.

No I don't think it's right that people are just pushed through on a conveyor belt. Everyone deserves proper investigation and the correct treatment no matter what their problem is whether physical or mental.

I wouldn't say that no one should ever though because I wouldn't presume to have the expertise to say that.

"... it does need proper and thorough investigation."

100% agree. Why aren't the trans lobby pressing for more investigation on this?

He works as a man and is treated as a man

What does this mean? How do you work as a man?

Italiangreyhound sorry to hear of your struggles (if that's the right word sorry) I'm glad to hear you are seeing a counsellor. I was abused as a child and know how hard it is when you feel different, like I didn't fit in and as an outsider I suppose. I have a 10 year old daughter I want to wrap her in cotton wool. I never want her to feel an ounce of the pain I've felt. It doesn't help that she is the sweetest kindest loving person I've ever known. She is a people pleaser. I don't want her to not be who she is but the world isn't a kind place.
Anyway sorry for the derail haha

OkPedro my goodness that is hard.

It's Ok for me, I've come to terms with the OCD. It's quite mild. Some people have it a lot worse. I had CBT for the anxiety and it worked brilliantly for me. It doesn't work for everyone. Again, for me, the anxiety wasn't too bad.

Talking about mental health is very helpful.

Hestia we do allow adult anorexics to make their own decisions. Nobody force-feeds them unless they are sectioned. We also allow depressed people to commit suicide, unless they seek help or are sectioned. Whatever you think about trans people, for many of them, medical transition is the preferred treatment and the one that reduces gender dysphoria the most.

Do I agree with giving hormones to children? Of course not. Should a fully informed adult be allowed to make the decision to take hormones or have surgery? Yes, they should.

As for the ‘all trans people are narcissistic’ line from River, I don’t know what to say. I am gender-critical and I want to retain single sex protections for women. However, I see statements like that as below the belt really. If you made a statement like that about eg people suffering from depression, you’d be lambasted. I am glad it was deleted.

I am sure there are issues with it and it doesn’t help everyone to feel better. However, these are adult patients you’re talking about. Gender reassignment surgery and hormones have been around far far longer than pressure groups have and I am not so sure that there is absolutely no evidence that medical transition can be beneficial.
I wholeheartedly agree with preventing children from being put on hormones or have surgery but I can’t be as paternalistic when it comes to adults who actively seek out medical reassignment. It’s very easy to say ‘be happy in your body’ when you don’t have gender dysphoria. I am all for people expressing their identity how they choose. I don’t think medical transition makes a man a woman or vice versa and i don’t think it should permit entry to female spaces, but I am not interested in stopping adults from doing something that they believe will make them feel better.

What about other questionable medical treatments, like vaginal mesh? Should we not talk about possible problems with this, because it might be ‘paternalistic’?
Or thalidomide? Should we just keep quiet and let pregnant women make their own decisions regarding it?

Everything Materialist just said.

But why is medical transition the preferred treatment? Because lobbying organisations have demanded that.

With the modern transgender agenda transition is not about the treatment of Gender Dysphoria .... it's often about alternative lifestyle and sexual fetish. You can't indulge a sexual fetish through counselling !

Those with GD (transsexual) it is believed only represent 2% of the transgender pot. Within this group transition is often not the first choice....counselling, CBT etc. is also used.

So that I am clear, you think that adult patients should be denied medical transition ‘for their own good’? I am not trying to be goady but how do we treat people with gender dysphoria then?

My view is let them do what they want and focus on the rights to women’s single sex spaces. I don’t think there is any other treatment that magically cures gender dysphoria and I would be very reluctant to get involved in questions of medical treatment for adults where I (or you guys) have little to no experience or understanding of the complexities involved. Let that be a matter between doctors and their mentally competent patients. Adults choose to permanently alter their bodies in many ways eg cosmetic surgery. We may not choose that path ourselves but that doesnt mean we are entitled to stop it.

I do think the first line of treatment whether private or NHS should always be counselling though but I have personal experience of how ineffective counselling can be for MH conditions. It’s by no means a magic solution and not is anything else.

Why does the trans community actively works to PREVENT statistically valid data collectionand research into treatment efficacy and other treatment modalities?

This is the problem "the trans community".... so many things are lumped in together that it becomes meaningless. The voice goes to the majority group under that umbrella. This means that the biggest voice under that umbrella goes to those who are not medicalised and who have absolutely no desire to be so.

There is valid data in relation to GD treatment options.

I've noticed one interesting think ....

Typically, the transgender person likes to identify as transgender. They talk of lady penises and TWAW. The want to do whatever they want and none should challenge or say otherwise.

The transsexual person struggles with GD. They only seek to find a way to address that. Quite often they hate the journey they are on but find it necessary to find peace. All they want to do is get on with life quietly.

how do we treat people with gender dysphoria

Remember that patients with GD represent only 2% of the so called transgender umbrella.

Only 30% of those with GD seek surgical transition.

So that under 1% of transgender that seek surgery.

cant yes I am talking about transsexuals with GD. Not people who take neither hormones nor have surgery. Surely the debate is only re those with GD because those without are unlikely to want to modify their bodies extensively (preferring to refer to girl-dick etc instead)? I must say I am a bit confused. Are you saying that adult people without gender dysphoria are being pushed into medical transition?

funky not all those who start medical transition have GD. There is a subtype of transsexual known as autogynephilic transsexual where transition is sought for sexual arousal. There are a number of cases of people going through full SRS for that reason.

cant okay well while I don’t think hormone treatment for AGPs should be funded by the state, how can we legitimately stop them from buying hormones on the internet etc? And why do we want to stop them? If some middle-aged guy gets turned on by him growing boobs, what is the public interest in stopping this? All I care about is that the law doesn’t then declare that he is a woman and has access to female spaces. I don’t object or even care about how he chooses to express himself. If he then regrets taking estrogen, I can’t see the difference between that and someone who regrets having gigantically large breast implants.

Those with GD (transsexual) it is believed only represent 2% of the transgender pot. Within this group transition is often not the first choice....counselling, CBT etc. is also used.

For me, medical transition was the last resort after seeing multiple psychiatrists, psychologists, and counsellors. Insofar as CBT, its only real value was to limit self-harming/negative behaviours - not to tackle the GD itself.

When I was a kid, there was no Mermaids or similar. I ended up seeing a child psychologist/educational psychologist, but even if there was "a Mermaids", my mother - who was a very sensible and pragmatic woman, would have never fallen for this "new ideology". She thought I'd "grow out of it", and happily supported my GNC (probably thinking I'd grow up to be gay tbh).

The problem is that with "true" GD, it doesn't "go away", it just gets worse - no matter how many mental health people you end up sitting in front of or how many coping mechanisms get thrown at you.

And as a side note - the most unhelpful question these people love to throw at you is "...well do you 'feel' like a woman?" - to which my answer is always "what does a woman feel like? I feel like 'me'..." - at which point they try to drill down to hackneyed old stereotypes.

HOWEVER, when everything else fails, a medical transition IS the only way forward - and as I've said in previous threads, the GD never truly goes away even after transition. It's eased dramatically, but it still "sneaks up" on you when you least expect it.

It's a disgusting mental illness. It's all-consuming and all-pervasive, and at its worst makes it nigh impossible to function on both a cognitive and social level.

Be under no illusion - taking hormones carries significant risks: The HRT can cause blood clots, strokes, heart disease, and the anti-androgens can INCREASE depression, cause suicidal ideation, bring about anaemia - to name but a view. Any good Dr will schedule regular blood tests to monitor kidney/liver function as they're the first to be put under stress.

I think this is ONE (there are many) of the reasons I get annoyed at the blue-haired "gender feelz" brigade - who just trivialise GD into (paraphrasing) "I feel like a woman so I am a woman". It's that "aquisition"... and that's not what GD is. They see the "journey" as a fun little jaunt full of dresses and lipstick and fluffy kittens but it's anything but. It's more like Sisyphus rolling that bloody boulder up the hill.

Hamster00

Your comments, as always, bring a voice of reality and sanity to this issue.

This is especially pertinent, given the TRA 'feelings' mantras:

And as a side note - the most unhelpful question these people love to throw at you is "...well do you 'feel' like a woman?" - to which my answer is always "what does a woman feel like? I feel like 'me'..." - at which point they try to drill down to hackneyed old stereotypes.

I would much rather people were accessing the surgery and hormones here as a last resort with therapy and support than going abroad or buying them off the internet.

Making surgery and hormones illegal won’t stop people doing them it’ll just drive a black market and push people into very very dangerous situations.

Also if you are sure you need hormones and surgery and you know they aren’t an option through the dr why would you bother going to the dr? Where you may have accessed therapy and got a clear picture of what actually it all entails and make an informed decision.

Making surgery and hormones illegal won’t stop people doing them it’ll just drive a black market and push people into very very dangerous situations.

Exactly. People just "shopping" based off other people's doses they read on the internet is incredibly dangerous. I'd bet 99.99% haven't had baseline hormone levels checked via blood tests before they begin - let alone regular 3-6 month monitoring, or kidney/liver function tests.

I think during the course of my transition I had my hormone doses changed 8 times - until the correct maintenance dose was prescribed.

I am very much against self-medicating for several reasons, but if these people want to play Russian roulette with their bodies there's not a lot you can do to stop them unless you change the legislation on acquiring these drugs without a UK dr/specialist
prescription.

They see the "journey" as a fun little jaunt full of dresses and lipstick and fluffy kittens but it's anything but. It's more like Sisyphus rolling that bloody boulder up the hill

Yes. This trivialising of women’s lives makes me ( as a woman ) really angry . And I can see how it must be the same for people who battle with gender dysphoria.

All this “ the hardest part of being a woman is deciding what dress to wear “ shit.