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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why my transgender son dosent want self ID

258 replies

justanothetnamechange · 10/12/2018 21:16

HI all, so I've been wanting to make this post for a while but I hire honest Ive been scared to but tonight I'm going for it.
I'm a regular user but have obviously name changed for this.
So I frequent this board often but have never posted before, I am very much for women's rights- as many of us are!! My world turned upside down 6 years ago when my son started having conversations with with us reguarding his gender identity, tbh to begin with I constantly shot him down, but realised that there was no harm in changing his prounouns and name if that what makes him comfortable, although this choice toke a couple years and a lot of arguments! We didn't rush into anything, at school he used disabled toilets and he didn't do PE anyway as it was extra catch up. But wasn't going to do medication at this stage- he could make this choice as an adult if that's what he wanted. He went under CAMHS. That brings us to 2018 he is know 18 years old so it's all very much his choice. He is soon to be assed for testosterone.
I don't want this post to be to much about his journey and please don't go on about how he will never be biologically a man, he knows this he is a proud trans man. This is how self ID would ruin that.
it brings another side of the argument that people might not have always thought about.
My son has gone through a lot of challenges and mile stones to be where he is today they have been emotional.
He feels self ID would take away these milestones.
He recently got his passport through saying male, to do this we had to get two doctors reports and a MH report and proth he was living as his gender. When it came through he cried, celebrated and went for a drink. Wink
He was recently allowed to play for a male football team to do this he needed club approval, a doctors report party and proth he was going to medically transition. He needed to be present for a pane. He just played his first game it was celebrated and a good game to watch.
He works as a man and is treated as a man. But it took a lot of battles.
He is soon to apply for a GRC something he feels is the final step for social transition.
But when he tells people he is transgender he feels people accept him more when he says he's had to go through this. He feels genuine. He under stands sex segregation and respects men's boundary's. He only changes in the male changing room at football for example because they had a meeting about it and everyone said it was fine and even then he come in at the end when everyone's changed to take part in the talks etc.
He doesn't like the idea that someone could say I'm trans one day and get all the rights he's fort for. He doesn't like the idea that people who don't understand transition will come into sex segregated spaces. He doesn't like that he won't feel his long struggles will be looked on in the same way as they were before. This one may sound Selfish- He Dosent like that already stressed resources will become even more stressed as boundary's to be accepted will weaken. He wants to be accepted and knows he won't by everyone but in his opinion it happens more when he has that M in his passport and plus for his local team and when everyone can do this it's not as real. His struggles aren't as real. His battles aren't as real. His tears aren't as real. He feels even more invalidated. when he was 17 we talked about the GRC and he said how happy he'd feel when it came through and how he would have a weight lifted from his shoulders know someone wants to take away from this.
I hope this was right to post and makes sense!!
If anyone has any questions my son and me are happy to try and answer them.
I'm going to go put my hard hat on and hide in a corner just in case!

OP posts:
Lettera · 10/12/2018 23:55

I am very sorry that your child is so distressed by their female body that they intend to alter it by taking harmful drugs and possibly mutilating surgery. I am profoundly grateful that my proud lesbian daughter (in her 20s) was not born ten years later as she might well have fallen victim to 'transgenderism'.

I wish you both health and happiness.

justanothetnamechange · 11/12/2018 00:07

Thank you for the reply's.
Yes he always knows he won't be biologically a man, his favrouiye subject was science at school!!! He never wants to go down the surgery route hormones for him are a happy medium, it's hard to lower his voice all the time and they help re distrubute fat etc. (I haven't read up to much as I don't want to!) he already never wanted biological children as we carry a dominant genetic condition so that's something he never really had to think about.
Someone comment thurther up about how he feels about de transitioning videos we have had this conversation before but I asked him again- those people were never given the right psychologically guidance and were allowed to jump into things to quickly which was wrong and when they have gone down this road to quickly they've realised that they have had to go back and have possibly done damage to there body. For some it is a phase and they should have support, guidance and family support not spread it everywhere and anywhere without knowing the implications.

OP posts:
Lettera · 11/12/2018 00:20

OP, you say that your child is keeping their breasts and vagina. How do they define 'man'?

This is a genuine and not a rhetorical question!

BubonicTheHedgehag · 11/12/2018 00:21

I think I'd be trying to support my daughter's feelings that she does not want to become a woman despite being a girl: because she is correct, in many ways - being a woman can be shit.

Would it be possible to explore radical feminism with her, probably gently?

The fact that her favourite subject has always been science does Not make her a boy/man!

Womantheonlykind · 11/12/2018 00:23

Poor you, what an impossible situation as a parent. Since your dc is an adult you no longer have a say but just have to be there I suppose.

You have a daughter who says otherwise.

One of my dc is severely disabled. It has been a hard road trying to boost self esteem whilst teaching resilience and necessary acceptance in the face of public prejudice. There is a way to go yet (a neverending conundrum I suspect) and I think every day a child who will never walk spends in the world is one wishing to be able to walk but no good would ever come from denying reality.

Being a parent is difficult. A magic wand would be nice but there isn't such a thing. If there was I would have found it by now!

justanothetnamechange · 11/12/2018 00:30

He Dosent want to go down the surgery route not because he Dosent have dysphoria over his genitals but because of more personal reasons- he's had many ops in the past and can't psychologically but him set through another. So I think are stance is a bit different, hence why I didn't say this to begin with as it makes us a bit different and we feel we can't have an opinion over the surgery issue also he knows he will never have male chromosomes so why change a body that won't work as a man.
To go on your question, he was a bit stumped by that one he says if it's defining male sex; he says when you have male Cromosones and have male parts. Gender for him is more complicated but knows that many things are sex seperated and not by his gender feelings. Feelin male/female and having gender dysphoria is different and can alter how your brain answers that question. He then commented it might be better to ask a real man!!!
I would also like to add so I am not drop feeding to much,sorry about doing it a bit this was a scary post to make! The only medication I did alow under 18 was the pill back to back to stop his periods this was done for two reasons though one the obvious one, that it made him fee even shitter each month and two he had horrible pain, endometriosis, heavy bleeding that made him pass out once after this the doctor decided this was the best course of action. But they will start again when he stops taking the pill

OP posts:
justanothetnamechange · 11/12/2018 00:34

Oh and however commented that he thinks he's a boy because his favrouiye subject is science I don't think that came across how I ment it I was talking about chromosomes and was just commenting that my son understands that as his favourite subject at school was science if thy makes sense!

OP posts:
Calvinsmam · 11/12/2018 00:39

Feelin male/female and having gender dysphoria is different and can alter how your brain answers that question.

This is such an interesting point.

Does he mean that it not that he ‘feels like a man’ in the way that he knows what a man feels like, rather that the gender dysphoria makes him feel wrong and that’s sated when he presents ‘as a man’.

Out of interest has his gender dysphoria got better or worse since he started presenting as a man?

I only ask because I know a transman who says that it got worse because before he was a unhappy that he was presenting as a woman but that was a constant, but now he’s worried that he’s not passing all the time and when he gets misgendered it really hurts him.

He seems to think that won’t haopen once he starts taking t but I’m not so sure.

PositivelyPERF · 11/12/2018 00:44

Who did your child go to for guidance and counselling, OP? I have a niece that has autism and is identifying as a man, but I’m afraid that I just continue to use her pet name, which she doesn’t have an issue with. I love her dearly but her family is very homophobic and I honestly think she’s simply a very insecure young lesbian. There are so many questions I’d like to ask, but I don’t want to offend you or your child.

I’ve noticed that some posters will refer to your child as your daughter/she/her. Is your child upset about ‘misgendering’? I’m waiting for the report button to burn out, as it’s ‘literal violence’. 🙄 That means that some well thought out answers will go puff and you’ll have a thread full of holes. If your child is grounded in reality, it might help the thread if you let Mumsnet know that your child doesn’t have any issue with that.

I hope your child finds whatever is missing from your child’s life. Good luck for the future.

BubonicTheHedgehag · 11/12/2018 00:47

You are still talking about your born daughter in a men's world. It's very conceivable that an intelligent girl would attempt to identify as a boy/man, because of the obvious benefits of being a boy/man rather than a girl/woman, It makes sense.
But wait and watch how men will treat your young daughter who identifies as a boy/man.

Do boys and men identify your child as male, or female?

justanothetnamechange · 11/12/2018 00:48

I would say in some ways it's so much Better you look at pictures of him much younger and know and everyone comments that he looks comfortable and happier especially just in his own skin.
I think what he ment and it's hard to say in text, is that he feels like a man, his mannerisms are that of a man how he acts etc. But he also says can he really say how a man or women thinks/feels when he only knows truly how he feels and does him having dysphoria make him think differently because he does think about passing and being gendered etc. When a man dosent think like that. It's the one thing he struggles to put into words -he likes to draw and I'm trying to put that into text so sorry if it dosent come across right.

OP posts:
Lettera · 11/12/2018 00:49

OP, please thank your son for answering my question. There's lots more I would like to ask but I don't want to offend him!

Calvinsmam · 11/12/2018 00:50

You say he has the mannerisms of a man, did his mannerisms change as he transitioned?

justanothetnamechange · 11/12/2018 00:52

Please feel free to you can PM if you want to. He dosent mind, he understands that not everyone agrees or understands etc. And one way of doing this is asking questions.
I don't mind people saying she/daughter that's there choice, but as someone else commented if you were to see him in life he passes as a man he dosent often get misgendered, I think it helps he's rather tall, looks younger (so I should say he passes as a boy) and isn't skinny so dosent show hips/chest as much.

OP posts:
PositivelyPERF · 11/12/2018 00:55

Thank you for clarifying that OP.

justanothetnamechange · 11/12/2018 00:55

Sorry to comment again I hen ever I hit post there's a new question. No his mannerisms haven't changed he has always been a typical 'tomboy' and by mannerisms I don't just mean gender stereotypes such as toys and sport I mean how he acted I can't describe it in words but if you watched him how he walk talks, body language etc. Is that of a boy. In actual fact he often got 'misgendered' very young (6-10) as a boy and it hurt me but he never minded and actually liked it. I can see why know!

OP posts:
BubonicTheHedgehag · 11/12/2018 00:57

I ask again:

Do boys and men identify your child as male, or female?

justanothetnamechange · 11/12/2018 01:02

Sorry I thought I answered your question. The majority of the time male, and other people who know my son or don't.

OP posts:
BubonicTheHedgehag · 11/12/2018 01:10

Then, indeed, you are justified in celebrating your daughter's transition to being a male!

Even though it is a biological impossibility.

justanothetnamechange · 11/12/2018 01:12

Which I/ and my son have acknowledged. I don't understand your reply.

OP posts:
BubonicTheHedgehag · 11/12/2018 01:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

justanothetnamechange · 11/12/2018 01:20

Because he's not prentending and I'm gonna leave this thread for tonight me thinks!!

OP posts:
BubonicTheHedgehag · 11/12/2018 01:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LassWiADelicateAir · 11/12/2018 01:25

Would it be possible to explore radical feminism with her, probably gently?

It's very conceivable that an intelligent girl would attempt to identify as a boy/man, because of the obvious benefits of being a boy/man rather than a girl/woman, It makes sense

If I had a daughter I would steer her as far away as possible from radical feminism because of the sheer negativity it promotes about being a woman.

I don't really know what to say to the OP other than the only trans person I know in real life is ftm who started to transition in her/his mid 20s. He does not fit the "really would be a lesbian if allowed to" narrative (hetero as a woman and still attracted to men. He has a lesbian sister)

I've known this person all their life. She/he never seemed comfortable in herself as a child/ teenager. There was absolutely no pressure from his family to be feminine or conforming. He seems now the happiest I've known him.

OkPedro · 11/12/2018 01:28

justanothernamechange
You come across as a loving mother. I'm not sure how I would cope with your situation. I'm currently talking to my dc (10 and 7) about being happy with who they are/ pink isn't only for girls/you can't be born in the wrong body. It's a bloody minefield. We've had so many years of "whats wrong with being a girl". Its easier to be a man. Imo gender dysphoria is a mental illness and has nothing to do with being born in the wrong body. I wish you and your child well x

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