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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why my transgender son dosent want self ID

258 replies

justanothetnamechange · 10/12/2018 21:16

HI all, so I've been wanting to make this post for a while but I hire honest Ive been scared to but tonight I'm going for it.
I'm a regular user but have obviously name changed for this.
So I frequent this board often but have never posted before, I am very much for women's rights- as many of us are!! My world turned upside down 6 years ago when my son started having conversations with with us reguarding his gender identity, tbh to begin with I constantly shot him down, but realised that there was no harm in changing his prounouns and name if that what makes him comfortable, although this choice toke a couple years and a lot of arguments! We didn't rush into anything, at school he used disabled toilets and he didn't do PE anyway as it was extra catch up. But wasn't going to do medication at this stage- he could make this choice as an adult if that's what he wanted. He went under CAMHS. That brings us to 2018 he is know 18 years old so it's all very much his choice. He is soon to be assed for testosterone.
I don't want this post to be to much about his journey and please don't go on about how he will never be biologically a man, he knows this he is a proud trans man. This is how self ID would ruin that.
it brings another side of the argument that people might not have always thought about.
My son has gone through a lot of challenges and mile stones to be where he is today they have been emotional.
He feels self ID would take away these milestones.
He recently got his passport through saying male, to do this we had to get two doctors reports and a MH report and proth he was living as his gender. When it came through he cried, celebrated and went for a drink. Wink
He was recently allowed to play for a male football team to do this he needed club approval, a doctors report party and proth he was going to medically transition. He needed to be present for a pane. He just played his first game it was celebrated and a good game to watch.
He works as a man and is treated as a man. But it took a lot of battles.
He is soon to apply for a GRC something he feels is the final step for social transition.
But when he tells people he is transgender he feels people accept him more when he says he's had to go through this. He feels genuine. He under stands sex segregation and respects men's boundary's. He only changes in the male changing room at football for example because they had a meeting about it and everyone said it was fine and even then he come in at the end when everyone's changed to take part in the talks etc.
He doesn't like the idea that someone could say I'm trans one day and get all the rights he's fort for. He doesn't like the idea that people who don't understand transition will come into sex segregated spaces. He doesn't like that he won't feel his long struggles will be looked on in the same way as they were before. This one may sound Selfish- He Dosent like that already stressed resources will become even more stressed as boundary's to be accepted will weaken. He wants to be accepted and knows he won't by everyone but in his opinion it happens more when he has that M in his passport and plus for his local team and when everyone can do this it's not as real. His struggles aren't as real. His battles aren't as real. His tears aren't as real. He feels even more invalidated. when he was 17 we talked about the GRC and he said how happy he'd feel when it came through and how he would have a weight lifted from his shoulders know someone wants to take away from this.
I hope this was right to post and makes sense!!
If anyone has any questions my son and me are happy to try and answer them.
I'm going to go put my hard hat on and hide in a corner just in case!

OP posts:
Grauniad · 11/12/2018 14:04

That abstract is a bit unclear, but it's talking about both thickening and degeneration of the womb lining (endometrium), plus unspecified changes to the muscle layer (myometrium).

(I do hate it when scientists write vague things about 'changes to' without specifying what changes, and when they run two things together without making it clear whether one is part of the other or an alternative to it.)

BlindYeo · 11/12/2018 14:17

I wonder if some young women are transitioning to get away from the sexual nightmare porn is forcing upon them - wouldn't blame them! Imagine seeing some of the normalised violent sex out there on the internet these days and realising that's what's in store for you.

Maybe also the re-emergence of a more pink and sparkly overtly sexualised sex stereotype for women. Maybe also because of social contagion. Trans and non-binary blah blah for teenagers is clearly a fashion.

Calvinsmam · 11/12/2018 15:32

The idea for example that self- loathing of one's body as a teenager is normal and natural.

I don’t think it’s normal, I think it’s very common. And I don’t think it’s natural, I think it’s a symptom of a society that places value on women by how useful they are to men.

Lettera · 11/12/2018 16:11

Yes Fairytale, it is indeed complete and utter nonsense.

I feel very sorry for you and your child OP having got embroiled in it.

BettyDuMonde · 11/12/2018 16:27

I wonder if some young women are transitioning to get away from the sexual nightmare porn is forcing upon them - wouldn't blame them! Imagine seeing some of the normalised violent sex out there on the internet these days and realising that's what's in store for you

Y’know how women (all over the world, probably) invent fake boyfriends and husbands to make creepy dudes fuck off and leave them alone? Because simply saying you aren’t interested is interpreted as a challenge or makes you a target of abuse?

Sometimes I watch the polite, deferential young transmen on YouTube and can’t help but think they’ve taken it a step further and have actually become their own fake boyfriend in order to more efficiently ward off the creepy dudes.

Wearing a ‘wedding’ band was as far as my generation went.

LangCleg · 11/12/2018 16:41

Wearing a ‘wedding’ band was as far as my generation went.

Most of my mates did this.

That is a very perceptive post, Betty.

Truckingonandon · 11/12/2018 17:54

I've honestly never come across that message in radical feminism.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 11/12/2018 18:33

Transitioning certainly seems to have a lot to offer males who want to be sexually objectified and females who don't.

I'll eat my hat if this has nothing to do with messages from porn and from the wider culture about who is supposed to objectify whom.

HestiaParthenos · 11/12/2018 18:40

I wonder if some young women are transitioning to get away from the sexual nightmare porn is forcing upon them - wouldn't blame them! Imagine seeing some of the normalised violent sex out there on the internet these days and realising that's what's in store for you

I would be very surprised if this wasn't the case.

Especially for those who don't really want to commit to a male identity and call themselves "non-binary".

My sympathy for them usually evaporates right after I confront them with radical feminism and they insist that exploitation and pornification of other women is just fine, and how dare I imply they are female themselves.

Though there's probably some very young girls who have never heard about radical feminism and would embrace it if they ever heard about it.

About this becoming your own fake boyfriend - I think it is more like donning an invisibility cloak, actually.

Or like putting on Death Eater robes and a mask to go undercover among them and not be killed.

Of course, transing yourself enables you to be a lesbian's fake boyfriend.

I wonder whether that's why not just young girls, but also older women who have a history of actual feminism, decide to trans themselves.

OldCrone · 11/12/2018 18:48

The idea for example that self- loathing of one's body as a teenager is normal and natural.

I don’t think it’s normal, I think it’s very common. And I don’t think it’s natural, I think it’s a symptom of a society that places value on women by how useful they are to men.

I agree with this. Feminism is a solution to this - a movement which centres women.

Just to get back to what you said, Lass, I have seen posters on here talking about 'how awful being female is', but please don't assume we all feel like that.

Weetabixandshreddies · 11/12/2018 18:48

I am presuming that no posters on here smoke cigarettes? You know, because tobacco is so dangerous, virtually guaranteed to cause cancer etc?

Or, alternatively, we could recognise that adults are allowed to make their own decisions?

Branleuse · 11/12/2018 18:53

Err well i dont smoke, but if you are really comparing irreversible genital reassignment surgery and hormone treatment which sterilises and desexes young people, with smoking, then i suggest you havent even looked into this subject at all. Thats without even going into the political and social implications of promoting feelings about identity being more important than biological sex for determining which prison, who does your intimate care/procedures, what sports team you play on etc etc

RiverTam · 11/12/2018 18:55

Oh, I don't know that fags were now available on the NHS and that they were promoted by, well, anyone as a cure for anything.

Every day's a school day, eh, Weetabix (you might want to work on your analogies, btw, that one was a doozy!)

90mammasophie · 11/12/2018 18:56

Best wishes and luck to you and your family.
Sounds like you've had some difficult years. Everything you've said sounds sensible.
He has overcome big obstacles and that's a huge achievement.
Though I am with the few that believe one can't really ever change their gender in reality, I do hope your child finds his peace and happiness and continues to get the love and support needed. You sound like a fantastic mum with a smart kid. x

Weetabixandshreddies · 11/12/2018 18:58

Well substitute cigarettes for the great number of drugs available on the NHS that cause serious side effects.

And yes I would think that smoking is every bit as dangerous as taking cross sex hormones and how is it ok to judge someone else's choices if your own choices aren't whiter than white?

HestiaParthenos · 11/12/2018 19:06

And yes I would think that smoking is every bit as dangerous as taking cross sex hormone

Do you know after how many years of not smoking the risk for heart disease and lung cancer reverts to normal? I can't quite remember, but might just have been 5 years.

Do you know after how many years of not taking testosterone a woman's ovaries and womb re-grow? Never.
Heart disease risk back to normal? I haven't the faintest idea, and I think, medical professionals also don't.
Obviously, the masculinisation? of the face and body also doesn't fully revert, but we are talking about health here.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 11/12/2018 19:09

I don't smoke, the reason being that despite industry attempts to cover up evidence that it's a health risk, some dedicated people spoke out and made us aware that it can have really serious health consequences.

That's quite a good analogy actually.

HestiaParthenos · 11/12/2018 19:10

Also, don't you ever dare try this nonsense on me.

I don't smoke, don't drink, and don't eat fastfood.

I have never watched porn in my life.

By implying that it is okay to judge other's choices if your own are impeccable, you just have given me permission to judge.

Not that I would have needed it, but always nice to have it.

Grin
TeaForDad · 11/12/2018 19:17

I didn't read the whole thread but from the op, your son is the kind of trans person that most of us reasonable people would be happy to support, and one of the probe likely to be hurt most by this ridiculous trans fashion.
Good luck to you. No doubt your son will be called a TERF NAZI for his views like every other doubter :/

DebbieInBirmingham · 11/12/2018 19:25

Sending best wishes to both of you, @justanothetnamechange. It's not an easy life but, if gender dysphoria has got it's tentacles into you, then transition is a pragmatic solution to the trauma.

Weetabixandshreddies · 11/12/2018 19:37

Do you know after how many years of not smoking the risk for heart disease and lung cancer reverts to normal? I can't quite remember, but might just have been 5 years.
Because it doesn't. The earlier you stop smoking the better but the risk doesn't revert to normal. Otherwise why do drs ask "have you ever smoked"?
3 family members died from lung cancer 20+ years after stopping - drs still attributed it to smoking.

If you don't do anything damaging to your health fair enough.

Anyone that does though wants to put their own house in order before judging anyone else.

HestiaParthenos · 11/12/2018 19:51

Anyone that does though wants to put their own house in order before judging anyone else.

Why?

I was taught in school that smoking is bad for you, and therefore I never started.

If people had to be perfect to be allowed to mention that smoking is bad for me, I probably would be a chain smoker by now.

(While we are on the topic of smoking, isn't public smoking outlawed in the UK?)

LangCleg · 11/12/2018 19:54

Anyone that does though wants to put their own house in order before judging anyone else.

What's that got to do with adolescents making lifelong decisions before their brains have fully matured? Rather feeble attempt at whataboutism there.

FairytaleOfWigan · 11/12/2018 20:00

www.cancer.org/healthy/stay-away-from-tobacco/benefits-of-quitting-smoking-over-time.html

Can someone post me a link of when your breasts grow back after a mastectomy?

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 11/12/2018 20:14

There's also a difference between people exercising their right as adults to take risks with their health in the service of their personal goals, and people taking risks with their health because they weren't properly informed about what those risks might be.

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