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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

School trans inclusive policy

181 replies

FlawedAmazon · 10/12/2018 20:20

I know this is a bit of a long shot, but I need to get hold of some information regarding the allowing of boys that identify as girls into girls changing rooms.

As far as I remember, the wording mentioned that girls who felt uncomfortable about the arrangement, were 'encouraged' to choose a different activity.

I think it was schools that came under the remit of Brighton that received it. I'd be very grateful for any information.

Sorry for being so vague.

OP posts:
LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 12/12/2018 12:12

It’s not private facilities they (or rather those advising them) want though. That would ‘other’ them.

They want people to look at them and say ‘oh yeah you’re a pretty girl, absolutely 100% woman, no maleness there oh no siree!’ 🤦🏽‍♀️. You are one of us (but better).

A child with a disability or additional needs who feels needs a bit of privacy should absolutely have a private facility for them - their own benefit and comfort. I’m sure they would give anything not to have to need this - or be able to say ‘I self ID as completely healthy’ and not need it. Some kids may be cool with their disability - but others may feel embarrassed or just not want people gawping or asking questions.

That’s it - I’m going to have Pulp in my bloody head all day again.

Bowlofbabelfish · 12/12/2018 12:32

fairytale

Yet again we see children and adults with disabilities or physical differences used as pawns or gotchas or as an identity to colonise.

We’ve seen on these boards in the last few weeks: suggestions that the genuine needs of a child with an additional need /disability/physical difference/injury prove that the identity of a trans person must be validated by allowing them intonopposote sex spaces. Moves to repurpose disabled toilets/change areas as gender neutral and for all, suggestions that intersex conditions prove that there are other sexes, or that sex is a spectrum, or that women without parts of their reproductive system aren’t women. Not to mention the wedge argument that disabled men are entitled to sex with prostitutes, and thus all sex work is fine.

It’s almost as though no one gives a toss unless they can be used to further their own agenda Angry

R0wantrees · 12/12/2018 12:37

It’s not private facilities they (or rather those advising them) want though. That would ‘other’ them.

Earlier in the year a school that had provided private facillities for a pupil with a 'trans' gender identity.

There was a public campaign headed up by a police officer Gina Dunham (?), their local TRA support group and online public pressure etc. (Think it was in Essex/ SE?)

It was framed as being akin to apartheid to provide separate private facilities for the male child who identified as a 'girl.

The campaign was successful and the school changed its policies.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 12/12/2018 12:38

Funny how the fight for disabled access and facilities has been long and hard - but fay presto, the trans lobby have bullied, threatened and guilted their way along in a relatively short time.

FairytaleOfWigan · 12/12/2018 12:39

Indeed. Having private facilities to change seems a common choice made by girls who identify as trans and who take PE with boys but don’t want to change with them.

It’s generally NOT the choice of boys who identify as girls , who seem to insist changing with the girls and refuse private facilities.

They want attention and validation, not privacy. And the extra joy of compelling others speech and enforcing their ideology on others.

So completely the oppposite of pupils with disabilities who may WANT to use private changing areas and don’t want to take away anyone else rights.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 12/12/2018 12:41

4 types of loos:

Women (with disabled access and baby changing where relevant)
Men (ditto)
Easy access (ground floor, no steps, wide doors etc)
‘Whatever’ - stop making suck a bloody fuss and go for your pee without needing to tell the whole world.

LangCleg · 12/12/2018 12:44

Many young children with a prosthetic limb are remarkably matter of fact about it and some will be perfectly happy to change with their peers. Of course schools will provide privacy if its needed by the child.

My son spent his entire primary and secondary school career training in a mixed ability athletics group. He would be horrified to see this vile false equivalence and his friends used to make someone else's point about the boundaries of girls not mattering.

Yet again we see children and adults with disabilities or physical differences used as pawns or gotchas or as an identity to colonise.

This. I've seen some vile things said around here - blind canals, anyone? - but this one is right up there.

LangCleg · 12/12/2018 12:46

The campaign was successful and the school changed its policies.

You must be imagining that, surely, R0? It's an urban legend, we have been authoritatively informed.

R0wantrees · 12/12/2018 12:51

Apologies, It was Police Officer Gina Denham:

BBC article March 2018
'Essex school changes transgender toilet policy'
(extract)
A school has changed its policy after a transgender pupil revealed she was not allowed to use the girls toilets.

A student at King Edmund School in Rochford, Essex told transgender support group Transpire that a teacher said she could not use the toilets "out of respect".

Transpire said schools need to make sure no pupils are made to feel alone.

Headteacher Jonathan Osborn said pupils will now be able to use a toilet which "matches their identified gender".

Founder of Transpire, Gina Denham, said it was about "raising awareness" and making sure the pupil "could have that sense of belonging".

She added that while some schools are "really inclusive," others were not."

"I find it quite amazing some schools are branding it respect when in fact it is segregation.

"We did have a positive outcome with this school though.

"It's about giving people the opportunity to use the toilet they are comfortable with, not what the school is comfortable with."

Mr Osborn said King Edmund School believes 'everyone has the right to feel comfortable' in order to "achieve the very best they can".

He said the school always discusses "individual needs with each of the small number of transgender students it has" and has sought to put in place agreed toilet provision.

He added that "because of what the school stands for and the rights written into equality law, the school made the decision to allow transgender students to use a toilet that matches their identified gender".
www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-43462823

see also Transgender Trend article:
www.transgendertrend.com/who-is-making-policy-for-schools/

threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3209839-The-Police-making-policy-for-schools

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3199413-interesting-school-toilets-story

R0wantrees · 12/12/2018 12:53

You must be imagining that, surely, R0? It's an urban legend, we have been authoritatively informed.

Not imagining & not opining.

Grin
Bowlofbabelfish · 12/12/2018 13:21

fay presto

Your autocorrect has a sense of humour ... Grin

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 12/12/2018 13:26

I meant it! I loved him/her when I was a kid!

R0wantrees · 12/12/2018 13:38

Girls and women (human females) should have the right to single sex intimate spaces in order to protect their safety, privacy and dignity.

This is both a safeguarding and child protection concern.

So too should it be when adult males seek to affirm their gender identity by influencing policies in schools, prisons, changing rooms, hospital wards which make these spaces mixed sex.

The account from Transgender Trend (linked previously) of how a school was lobbied to change its policies is very relevent to this thread. The origibal article shows how the online social media pressure was used so effectively:

March 2018
"The image above shows a presentation from a local Southend trans support group called Transpire, founded by a 54 year-old transsexual male called Gina Denham who teaches children that we all have a ‘gender identity’ which exists in the womb and is independent of both our socialisation and our biological sex. It is this ‘gender identity’ which makes us a boy or a girl and actually being male or female is irrelevant.

Transpire recently forced a school to change its policies in service of this ideology. Under the guise of ‘inclusion’ and ‘integration’ Gina Denham led an aggressive campaign to force a school in Rochford to remove sex-based rights and protections for its female students.

The trans pupil in question has been known by the Transpire group for two years so has presumably been thoroughly conditioned into the belief that he is literally female. As with Lily Madigan at his school in Kent, this one pupil has been afforded the power to change policy affecting all other pupils at the school with the help of a powerful transgender lobby.

The Transpire campaign began on Facebook:

policy for schools

The campaign continued on Twitter where King Edmund School Head Jonathan Osborn was bombarded with tweets of complaint, using the hashtag #BeInclusiveNotAbusive. A lot of the subsequent tweets have been deleted from Transpire’s Twitter account so we have had to use sceencaps from archived tweets:

The pressure was increased by letting a few other people know about the ‘discrimination’ going on at King Edmund school, including the local BBC station, Stonewall, the DfE, Ofsted, Pink News and the local District Council:

policy for schools

Adding LGBT Pride groups and the Prime Minister:

policy for schools

And a few more, including Mermaids and other well-known activists:

policy for schools

A few more are recruited, including the local newspaper, County Council and the leader of the Labour Party:

policy for schools

Inviting a pile-on from some more trans activist groups:

policy for schoolsAnd a few more:

policy for schools

Another tweet to the Head, including a ticking-off about ‘gendered titles’:

policy for schools

And another, including Essex County Council:

policy for schools

And some pressure on the Social Faculty leader:

policy for schools

More pressure, including the school’s Teaching and Learning Community:

policy for schools

And more, including the School Business Manager:

policy for schools

The Mayor of London is informed:

policy for schoolsAnd another:

policy for schools

And finally, “everyone wins!”

policy for schools

The whole campaign, from start to finish, took 6 days. No time to conduct a proper impact assessment on pupils protected under the protected characteristic ‘sex’ as the school is legally obliged to do before changing policy. How is this not in breach of Equality law? The pupil involved is legally male, not female, and single-sex provisions are lawful under the Equality Act, for reasons of privacy. The example of school facilities used in the Equality and Human Rights Commission Technical Guidance (3.20) does not state that a pupil protected under ‘gender reassignment’ as transsexual should be allowed to use the facilities of the opposite sex:

The way in which school facilities are provided can lead to discrimination. Example: A school fails to provide appropriate changing facilities for a transsexual pupil and insists that the pupil uses the boys’ changing room even though she is now living as a girl. This could be indirect gender reassignment discrimination unless it can be objectively justified. A suitable alternative might be to allow the pupil to use private changing facilities, such as the staff changing room or another suitable space.

King Edmund School is praised for showing “flexibility and openness to change” whereas in fact they were coerced by a campaign designed to intimidate and shame them for their ‘abusive’ policy of ‘discrimination’ and ‘segregation’, clearly risking damage to the school’s reputation. One tweeter even likened it to ‘apartheid.’

Although the final tweet proclaims ‘Everyone wins!’ Denham freely admits in this BBC report that the victory is only for the transgender student and everyone else’s needs and rights are unimportant

"It’s about giving people the opportunity to use the toilet they are comfortable with, not what the school is comfortable with.”

So who is Gina Denham and what gives this individual so much power that a school changes its whole policy to cater to the demands of just one pupil?" (continues)

School trans inclusive policy
LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 12/12/2018 14:19

Police officer?

OldCrone · 12/12/2018 14:20

Do these 'trans' children who get special treatment all have a diagnosis of gender dysphoria? Or are some (or most) of them self-identifying as transgender?

Is there a difference in the way schools treat children who have a medically diagnosed condition, versus the ones who say (or whose parents say) they have that condition, but have not had a professional diagnosis? I'm thinking of 'invisible' conditions like autism and ADHD here.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 12/12/2018 14:26

It depends, I suppose, on how gobby and obnoxious they are. And how loud they threaten to sue.

R0wantrees · 12/12/2018 14:31

Police officer?

Recently retired 'dedicated' police officer:
www.echo-news.co.uk/news/16881389.dedicated-essex-police-officer-gina-denham-stepping-down-for-well-deserved-rr-after-30-years-service/

andyoldlabour · 12/12/2018 15:40

Madigan - forced school to issue an apology regarding their refusal to allow Madigan to use girl's toilets and changing rooms.

www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/schools-apology-to-transgender-pupil-104081/

As far as I know, Madian is a self ID'ing person with all the "bits" intact.

R0wantrees · 12/12/2018 15:54

forced school to issue an apology regarding their refusal to allow Madigan to use girl's toilets and changing rooms.

certainly at the point of the challenge to school, Madigan was self-identifying as a 'trans girl pupil' & seekeing changes / validation of this identity through school uniform, name, pronouns and access to single sex spaces reserved for female pupils.

I think this was VI form too which is relevent.

Madigan has been open since about being sexually attracted to females eg opposite sex although self -identifies as a lesbian.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 12/12/2018 16:47

Men can be lesbians now? Oh right. Silly me.

R0wantrees · 12/12/2018 16:55

There is a lot of pressure on young lesbians (human females) to accept males who self-identify as lesbians.

today's article in AfterEllen:
www.afterellen.com/general-news/567505-male-run-pink-news-at-odds-with-lesbian-community

Amy Dyess:
medium.com/@amydyess83/terf-is-hate-speech-and-its-time-to-condemn-it-6efc897ce407

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 12/12/2018 17:08

Pressure there may be, and sweary as I am, I can’t repeat what my (gay) sister said when I mentioned male lesbians to her. Yes she has come across it and no, she less than politely declines your kind offer of a poke.

andyoldlabour · 13/12/2018 08:10

@LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD

"Men can be lesbians now? Oh right. Silly me."

Of course, because in the modern world you can be as delusional as you like and other people have to accept what you believe.
Don't expect to have a debate with a delusional person, because it will be like playing chess with a pigeon. Whe faced with checkmate, the pigeon will flap its wings sh*t on the board and fly away.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 13/12/2018 08:46

I’ve got flu - or so the silly doctor says. Can I pretend to be ok and go swimming? And not infect everyone?

Good o. Who says the days of magic have gone. I blame bloody Harry Potter.

R0wantrees · 13/12/2018 08:46

Magdalen Berns
'What Kind Of Fools Do Transgender UK and Stonewall Take Us For?'

Includes focus on Alex Drummond a member of the influential Stonewall Trans Advisory committee.

Alex Drummond goes into schools discussing how they is a lesbian 'widening the bandwidth of what it is to be a woman'

Stonewall guidance is accepted and embraced by many schools.

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